Fair Deal/Nursing Homes Fair Deal Payments Query

[Ken651]

Hi
It looks like my mother will be going into a nursing home fairly soon.
I have read the Fairdeal literature but I just want to confirm something.

My mother receives the state pension only as income.
She has savings of €120,000.
She owns the family home (value €200,000).
My father passed away 10 years ago.

So, am I correct in saying that she will have to pay the following each year as part of her contribution to the cost of the nursing home:

80% of income i.e. €10,000 approx
7.5% of her savings less €36,000 (i.e. 7% of €84,000) i.e. €6,300
7.5% of value of family home i.e. €15,000

So, that equates to a total cost of €31,300 each year.
Is this correct ?

I realise that the family home part is not paid each year but instead will be paid after my mother passes away.

Is that the sum total of what she will pay, or are there further expenses that I don't know about ?

Thanks in advance

 

[POC]

Good luck with making this tough decision. I assume you've visited a few nursing homes to help with planning this.
The 7.5% of value of the family home is only due for the first 3 years (but you can avail of the loan and postpone paying it back until the house is sold after her death).
Most nursing homes have an extra weekly charge for activities - this is very variable. Could be zero or could be hundreds. (It was approx 100 where my mother was and they did provide lots of activities and entertainment).
We also had to pay for things like the onsite hairdresser and some pieces of equipment which weren't covered on her medical card.

 

[ClubMan]

My mother receives the state pension only as income.

80% of income i.e. €10,000 approx

Shouldn't that be 80% x (52 weeks x €265.30) = €11k?

7.5% of her savings less €36,000 (i.e. 7% of €84,000) i.e. €6,300

You seem to have a typo there - 7% - but the €6,300 figure is correct.

So, that equates to a total cost of €31,300 each year.
Is this correct ?

€32,300 by my calculation using my pension figure.

I realise that the family home part is not paid each year but instead will be paid after my mother passes away.

Are you referring to the Nursing Home Loan here? That's an optional and not a mandatory part of the Fair Deal Scheme.

Nursing home loan

The nursing home loan is an optional part of the Fair Deal Scheme. You can apply for it in addition to any HSE funding you get towards nursing home care.

www2.hse.ie

Is that the sum total of what she will pay, or are there further expenses that I don't know about ?

As mentioned above, the house is only assessed for the first three years.

3-year cap on homes, farms and businesses

Read advice on the Fair Deal 3-year cap and how it applies to farm and business owners applying for nursing home support

www2.hse.ie

If the house might be rented out while she is in the nursing home then this may be relevant:

Minister Butler welcomes Fair Deal assessment of rental income reduction under “Housing for All”

www.gov.ie

 

[Ken651]

Thanks to you both, you've answered my questions.
Clubman, I've fixed my original post to show the more accurate figures, thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks again.

 

[Queenspawn]

@Ken651 I think we missed a very important element of the calculation. The first €36k is except from the assessment
from link below "The first €36,000 of your assets is exempt from the assessment. This is discounted from your cash assets first, and then your non-cash assets (land or property)"
so it becomes it's 3.75% of €120k - €36k
3.75% of €84k = €2,240 pa or €43 per week.

Financial assessment: How much you pay towards care

Find out how how the Fair Deal financial assessment works and how we calculate your payments towards nursing home care.

www2.hse.ie

 

[Slim]

@Ken651 I think we missed a very important element of the calculation. The first €36k is except from the assessment
from link below "The first €36,000 of your assets is exempt from the assessment. This is discounted from your cash assets first, and then your non-cash assets (land or property)"
so it becomes it's 3.75% of €120k - €36k
3.75% of €84k = €2,240 pa or €43 per week.

Financial assessment: How much you pay towards care

Find out how how the Fair Deal financial assessment works and how we calculate your payments towards nursing home care.

www2.hse.ie

No, that was taken into account and it's 7.5% as she's the full owner, being a widow, so always use the 7.5% but halve the assets if it was a couple.

 

[tictokboc]

Hi,
I have very recently done this process. Someone mentioned it already, but it is a big piece to keep an eye on. The nursing home I dealt with have a 'service' charge of €2,000 per month. The HSE obviously do not cover this charge on any calculation so you have to find the money privately. I am not going to say what nursing home this is, but the figure is accurate. They took 80% of her income, they took 7.5% of the value of her home as a loan for 3 years, and on top of that I had to find an additional 2k

 

[POC]

2k a month is huge. When I was researching nursing homes, the weekly service charge ranged from zero to just over €200. The nursing home we chose charged €100 per week and provided a lot of activities etc. We also had to pay for things like hairdressing on top - but it wasn't much.

 

[Sue Ellen]

The nursing home I dealt with have a 'service' charge of €2,000 per month.

That is very expensive. They did mention on the news one evening that some of the homes had even started charging for residents attending Mass in the home. We did have to pay extra for hairdresser and podiatrist but they were very reasonable. Cannot get over €2,000

 

[Des Pondent]

Mass and activities do cost money and are not covered by Fair Deal, but yeah €2,000 a month per resident is way over the top.

My mother was in a nursing home, there was what they called an activities fee of €70 weekly for entertainment etc. The nursing home explained they had to pay 2 full time activity coordinators who organised and assisted the residents with the various activities. There was a mass most days when they could get a priest, the local parish like most does not have enough priests for the various duties that they perform so cannot help the nursing homes. A donation of €50 per mass plus travel expenses was paid for priests from outside the parish to come and do a mass.

 

[thedaddyman]

€2000 a month is a complete and utter rip off and there is no other way to put it. In effect, it is a top up fee of almost 70 a day.

Most homes do charge for activities etc but in my own experience, you need to be careful as they leverage charges for everything on everyone, regardless of whether they have an ability to use the activities or not. I know in my own case with my Mam, we were given a "menu" of things, so as she had gone blind, we opted out of the daily paper but things like hair, chiropodist and other things had to be done and we were ok to pay for those.

 

[tictokboc]

I agree that it is a huge rip off - They basically said, the funding is so low from the HSE, that they need to charge it to keep the standard up. It completely threw me when I was trying to get my head around the Fair Deal Scheme. I just couldn't understand why I was not getting the figures to add up, rang the home and then this 2k 'Service' charge came to light. I am just doing a tax return for the resident to get some tax relief back- Just in case anyone thought I was exaggerating he is a snippet off the invoice.

 

[Sue Ellen]

rang the home and then this 2k 'Service' charge came to light.

Sounds very strange altogether. You had to ring to find out about the charge so you most likely do not have anything in writing about it by way of explanation. It all sounds quite hidden.

I would be checking this out with the HSE. When your relative got their letter of notification from the HSE did it mention anything about there being a shortfall. As upsetting as it may be for them to be moved I would certainly see about getting a new home as that charge is outrageous and very unusual as confirmed by people's reactions here.