Fair Deal/Nursing Homes Fair Deal assessable income

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Ryan

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We have a family member age 96 who is unfortunately no longer able to live alone following a fall.

In terms of the Fair Deal Scheme, she has an income below the state pension but but significant savings and property interests. My question is regarding the 80% of her pension that goes into the nursing home, is there a rule where she is led with a certain amount of income each week no matter what percentage that is. She spent many years outside the EU so is not entitled to the contributory pension
 
There is no minimum or maximum amount, the rule is she would contribute 80% of whatever income she has, so would be left with 20% of whatever income she has.

For those on a low income the 20% they get to keep often goes to pay the activity charge that most homes now apply and is not covered under Fair Deal. There are usually other costs, hairdressing, prescription charges, chiropody to name a few.

She would also be assessed 7.5% on whatever property other assets and savings she has.

Crunch the numbers, with what you say are significant savings and property interests, Fair Deal might not be of benefit to her.
 
I have done some reading and it looks like she can keep an Amount equivalent to 20% of the state pension. So that’s roughly €50 a week.it may not be worth going for the loan but I do think the fair deal would work
 
In the income and assets section here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/...er_people/nursing_homes_support_scheme_1.html

You keep 20% of your income or of the maximum rate of the non contributory pension, whichever is greater. I think you are right that bit she gets to keep will go to pay for things like hairdressing and that. It looks to me that its better not to sell the house in the a
event she lives longer than 3 years.
Can people in the fair deal scheme access their savings to pay things like health insurance or whatever expenses wouldn’t be covered out if that “pocket money”?
 
Be careful how you approach the fair deal application if you decide to go this route. Fair deal will factor in assets as well as savings and could class those as income.
Not advising you to do this but I've heard some people put an extremely low valuation on the property when applying for fair deal.

Do the sums carefully. It may end up cheaper paying for the care by selling her home or using her savings to pay for care.

I believe the average stay in a nursing home is three years.
 
Ryan said:
You keep 20% of your income or of the maximum rate of the non contributory pension, whichever is greater.

Can people in the fair deal scheme access their savings to pay things like health insurance or whatever expenses wouldn’t be covered out if that “pocket money”?
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That's very clear, there is a minimum amount so, as you say around €50 weekly.

Access to your savings is not blocked in any way, savings can be used to pay for extras, health insurance or whatever.

If savings are going down, you can apply annually to be reassessed and if spending was reasonable you would be reassessed on the lower amount.
 
Laughahalla said:
Fair deal will factor in assets as well as savings and could class those as income.
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I don’t think an asset can be classed as income.

Assets are assessed at 7.5%, income is assessed at 80%

A house is an asset and assessed at 7.5%, if you rented that house and made a profit of €5K a year, that €5K is income and would also be assessed at 80%.
 
Laughahalla said:
Be careful how you approach the fair deal application if you decide to go this route. Fair deal will factor in assets as well as savings and could class those as income.
Not advising you to do this but I've heard some people put an extremely low valuation on the property when applying for fair deal.

Do the sums carefully. It may end up cheaper paying for the care by selling her home or using her savings to pay for care.

I believe the average stay in a nursing home is three years.
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Shes in remarkably good health in medical terms and and very much of sound mind as well so please god she will live a good while longer. Unfortunately two nasty falls in the past 12 months have taken their toll on mobility
 
twofor1 said:
I don’t think an asset can be classed as income.

Assets are assessed at 7.5%, income is assessed at 80%

A house is an asset and assessed at 7.5%, if you rented that house and made a profit of €5K a year, that €5K is income and would also be assessed at 80%.
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Hi twofor1, if I recall correctly from my own experience, if the person has a home fairdeal will treat it as if that home could produce rent even if it is empty. The terms may have changed since my time though.
 
I don't think that's the case. The home is assessed at 7.5% pa and that's it. Only if it's actually rented will the income be counted. It's not terribly logical as it gives an incentive to leave property vacant.
 
Laughahalla said:
Hi twofor1, if I recall correctly from my own experience, if the person has a home fairdeal will treat it as if that home could produce rent even if it is empty. The terms may have changed since my time though.
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Hi Laughahalla, I have personally made or been closely involved in several Fair Deal applications, from when Fair Deal first started in I think 2009 until the most recent application I made being in 2017. Most involved unoccupied family homes.

In none of these applications was potential rental income from unoccupied family homes assessed as income.

That has been my experience.
 
twofor1 said:
Hi Laughahalla, I have personally made or been closely involved in several Fair Deal applications, from when Fair Deal first started in I think 2009 until the most recent application I made being in 2017. Most involved unoccupied family homes.

In none of these applications was potential rental income from unoccupied family homes assessed as income.

That has been my experience.
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Think my wires were crossed earlier. My brain was thinking in pre fair deal financial assessment for subvention.

The calculations I was thinking about were based on pre fair deal.
I dug out the old HSE paperwork. The HSE at that time did treat the empty home as income when they were making the financial assessment. At the time they said that the principal residence was assessed as 5% of the market value divided by 52 which gave a notional weekly income. This notional income along with state pension+ occupational pension was added together to give a weekly income calculation for subvention.
 
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She seems to like the HSE convalescence facility she has been placed in so Now the plan is to look to stay there as a long stay patient. The stated fee is €1500 per week so Fair Dral will undoubtedly help
 
Thanks for that Sue Ellen, that's very helpful.

Do you or any other poster know if the cost of private health insurance is an Allowable Expense against Income for calculation purposes?

Thanks in advance.
 
galwegian44 said:
Thanks for that Sue Ellen, that's very helpful.

Do you or any other poster know if the cost of private health insurance is an Allowable Expense against Income for calculation purposes?

Thanks in advance.
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Sorry I don't know about the health insurance Allowable Expense aspect but as you say perhaps others here may reply in due course. I found it to be a very stressful time so hope you get things sorted.
 
galwegian44 said:
Do you or any other poster know if the cost of private health insurance is an Allowable Expense against Income for calculation purposes?
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There is no mention of health insurance under ‘’Deductions’’ here;
https://www2.hse.ie/services/fair-deal-scheme/financial-assessment-your-payment-towards-care.html

The application form itself on Deductions for Health Expenses also only mentions doctors, pharmacy and prescription charges.

A few years ago, I asked Fair Deal if health insurance costs could be deducted and was told no.
 
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