Face coverings to be mandatory in shops

Susie2017 said:
They don't work because many peer reviewed publications have proven they don't work. I can provide a link to selected publications but it would be a very long post. I see people wearing them incorrectly everywhere I go. On their foreheads, under their noses, holding or touching them with their fingers, positioned under the chin etc. Many of them look like they are already filthy. It's quite disgusting in fact. The virus particles are so tiny they can easily pass through cloth masks and surgical masks even N95 masks. They were never designed for use in general public. The ones people are using are also of poor design quality and provide no seal. I'm amazed the number of people that have bought into this bunkum when there is such a long list of peer reviewed publications out there showing they don't work. Its akin to snake oil. It is irresponsible of decision makers to suggest this policy as it gives users a false sense of security. Not to mention expense and damage to the environment.
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The people that clueless about wearing masks are probably largely the same group clueless about sanitising hands, maintaining distancing, elements of basic hygiene. It doesn't invalidate the basis of the advice.

Did any of these peer reviewed publications assess the viral load from these tiny virus particles versus those from droplets?
The tiny virus particle argument is rebutted by the below linked article, which includes links to the referenced studies.
It's a red herring. Masks are not about suppressing 100% of the viral load and every virus particle but blocking the majority of the highly infectious droplets.
It's the droplets that travel furthest and hang longest in the air without dispersal.

Other studies bear this out in more detail, demonstrating that wearing masks does three important things.
  • One, they reduce the total mass and volume of droplets put into the environment.
  • Two, they reduce the distance that droplets travel and make physical distancing a much more effective preventative measure.
  • And three, wearing a face mask always reduces the total droplet mass relative to not wearing a mask, due to a combination of mask filtration (especially of larger droplets) and droplet evaporation (which is more effective for smaller droplets).

www.forbes.com

Ask Ethan: What Is The Science Behind Wearing A Mask?

At a very simple level, it's nothing but physics. Here's why you should care.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
That is an article based on one person's opinion. It is not evidence. Anecdote based on one person flying who may not have been in the infectious stage is not evidence. Show the evidence in a peer reviewed scientific publication that masks work in widespread use to reduce respiratory droplet spread of viral particles. People have bought into the government narrative on everything. Litter might be a red herring to you, to others who respect the environment it is very upsetting to see the country damaged by unproven policy.
 
Reducing particles doesn't work. You only need one tiny particle to pass through to transmit. These particles are highly infectious and just because you stop some of them doesn't mean you reduce numbers of infections. Mother nature will have her way. All this talk of zero covid is utter nonsense. If masks worked then why so many infections in health care workers ? On the bright side we have the hope of better treatments by Christmas. But I wont be using any mask in the meantime to give me a false sense of security. Breathing in your own exhaled CO2 while out walking is also ill advised and unpleasant. It will reduce your oxygen levels. Buy a pulse oximeter and check it out. If you have COPD or ischaemic heart disease it could make you unwell. Using crap cheap masks is a waste of time. Wearing them doesn't work.
 
Susie2017 said:
They don't work because many peer reviewed publications have proven they don't work. I can provide a link to selected publications but it would be a very long post. I see people wearing them incorrectly everywhere I go. On their foreheads, under their noses, holding or touching them with their fingers, positioned under the chin etc. Many of them look like they are already filthy. It's quite disgusting in fact. The virus particles are so tiny they can easily pass through cloth masks and surgical masks even N95 masks. They were never designed for use in general public. The ones people are using are also of poor design quality and provide no seal. I'm amazed the number of people that have bought into this bunkum when there is such a long list of peer reviewed publications out there showing they don't work. Its akin to snake oil. It is irresponsible of decision makers to suggest this policy as it gives users a false sense of security. Not to mention expense and damage to the environment.
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Two separate issues here - the standards required to protect the wearer are quite high and do involve proper seals and ventilation.

The requirement for people to wear masks in public is not to protect the wearer - they are designed to reduce the risk of the wearer infecting others by reducing range of coughs, sneezes and breathing. And contrary to your post, if there is general usage there is a significant reduction in risk. It's not absolute but it reduces transmission by approx. 70% if I recall. The advice specifically is not to wear N95 masks or masks designed for medical use because those masks are designed to prevent incoming virus and expel breath. That's not what is being managed

How people wear it is a separate issue and yes, they should be covering nose and mouth
 
Susie2017 said:
Breathing in your own exhaled CO2 while out walking is also ill advised and unpleasant. It will reduce your oxygen levels. Buy a pulse oximeter and check it out.
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Ok - at this stage you are making stuff up. There is plenty of evidence and example out there demonstrating oximeter readings while wearing masks and they don't reduce your O2 levels - this is conspiracy stuff
 
Susie2017 said:
That is an article based on one person's opinion. It is not evidence. Anecdote based on one person flying who may not have been in the infectious stage is not evidence. Show the evidence in a peer reviewed scientific publication that masks work in widespread use to reduce respiratory droplet spread of viral particles. People have bought into the government narrative on everything. Litter might be a red herring to you, to others who respect the environment it is very upsetting to see the country damaged by unproven policy.
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I specifically stated when linking the article that the article included links to the evidential studies.
The article is a summation of multiple such evidential studies.
The previous one also included such links.

You have failed to even attempt to explain why countries which had general mask wearing such as Czech Republic and Japan have such low figures compared to those who do not.

You lost me at "the government narrative". This is not a government narrative.
This is the advice of multiple independent health bodies which has been accepted by multiple independent government health authorities and cabinets.
There was a government narrative in this country and others on masks, and it was downplaying their benefits because the authorities did not have the quantity of masks and were trying to protect stocks for hospital settings.
There was also a narrative from China early in this year downplaying the risks of droplet transmission and trying to present covid-19 as primarily spread through surfaces and contacts.
The information coming out now has no narrative to it, just that health authorities believe that masks can be effective in reducing transmisison.

Litter is a red herring to any argument against masks effectiveness, or tissues, or gloves.
 
Regretfully I cant stay on here all day. But if people google 'why masks don't work' they might find some of the peer reviewed detail on this. I can post links later but it would be a long post. Not sure if that would be permitted. I have had posts deleted before as I don't go along with the narrative on a lot of this covid protocol. Its OTT, not evidence based and merely creates fear and anxiety. I just hope people start to do their own research and ask why we are being asked to live this way and why the economy and businesses are being so badly damaged.
 
Can't believe this stuff is still even being debated. They have messed around with the advice and science of this since the start but the consensus advice is now that wearing face coverings reduces the risk of spreading the disease. I was sceptical at how effective they would be and I am still concerned at how people handle and wear their masks in public settings (I have seen people put them down on table in Café) but at the end of the day, the public health advice is to wear a mask. Just wear it and do your best to wear it correctly. That is all each of us can do.

Wearing masks is not damaging businesses. It is helping businesses open. And people who throw away masks are the same people who dump rubbish every day. Not exactly a counterargument to wearing face coverings to help fight a pandemic.
 
Susie2017 said:
Reducing particles doesn't work. You only need one tiny particle to pass through to transmit. These particles are highly infectious and just because you stop some of them doesn't mean you reduce numbers of infections. Mother nature will have her way. All this talk of zero covid is utter nonsense. If masks worked then why so many infections in health care workers ? On the bright side we have the hope of better treatments by Christmas. But I wont be using any mask in the meantime to give me a false sense of security. Breathing in your own exhaled CO2 while out walking is also ill advised and unpleasant. It will reduce your oxygen levels. Buy a pulse oximeter and check it out. If you have COPD or ischaemic heart disease it could make you unwell. Using crap cheap masks is a waste of time. Wearing them doesn't work.
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There's no evidence for any of the above.

Viral load matters both to whether you get infected and how severely.
The viral load of a particle is miniscule compared to the viral load in droplets, the the particles disperse quickly and don't travel far.

We would have had dentists and doctors and nurses passing out from wearing masks all day if the reduced oxygen had any merit.
People with COPD or heart disease so severe should avoid all settings such as supermarkets or public transport in this pandemic.

So many healthcare workers got infected because the infected \ suspected patients weren't wearing masks.
A surgical mask won't protect you if you walk into a room that an infected patient has exhaled \ coughed droplets into.
 
maybe i am wrong in my thinking ,but cant get out of my head reading his/her? post is susie2017 from u.s. (republican supporter of a certain someone) ?
 
odyssey06 said:
So many healthcare workers got infected because the infected \ suspected patients weren't wearing masks.
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I posted before about why so many healthcare workers were infected with Covid19 early on. The protocol in hospitals and nursing homes when a patient has breathing difficulties is to put them on an oxygen enriched air supply. It is usual for such air supplies to have a humidifier so that the patients airway doesn't dry out. The standard mask used does not filter the exhaled air from the patient. The net result is that the infected patient exhaled aerosolized virus particles. This problem was first identified in nursing homes in Washington State. The solution was found by a doctor and engineer in Italy who adapted a full face diving mask for use with the respirator (non-ICU version, usually a C-PAP device).

The main reason for the prevalence of MRSA and other infections in Irish hospitals is medical and non medical staff not following hand washing protocols. I suspect there will be a decrease in such infections in future.
 
I just heard a case of a customer, a teacher, in a shop , wearing his face mask, when two men came in not wearing any. There was a notice in the window saying , no mask,no entry. He suggested to them that they should be wearing their masks only to be told in no uncertain terms to f..k off and they hoped that he got Covid, he said.. A confrontation took place between them . A female identified herself as an off duty garda . She ignored the two men and told him to stop arguing or leave the shop. He asked her to prove that she was a garda but she told him that she was off duty and did not have identification on her. He asked her to confront the two guys who were smirking at him but she ignored them. He asked to talk to a manager but no one was available . She left the shop and someone who observed what was going on told him that she was a garda. The shop assistants said that they stopped asking people to wear masks because of the abuse that they were getting.
So much for a notice in a shop window and no following up on it , the shopkeeper owner not the staff.
So much for been a customer trying to do the right thing.
So much for the garda .
So much for people not bothering to wear face masks and getting away with it.
 
When they didn't put the onus on shops to enforce it, and provide any real guidelines on establishing who is exempt, it was an abandoned policy.
e.g. Shops can be fined if someone smokes in them.
 
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