Ex-IMF Chief: Ireland is Insolvent

csirl said:
The individuals may have changed, but the institutional attitude is still there.
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But he's not in the institution. Unless you're saying that by virtue of the fact that he worked in the IMF for a small fraction of his career, his arguments can be completely ignored.
 
This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, talk about in fighting. If things remain in Ireland, as they are on this forum, things will never get sorted. Someone mentioned a National government. That's exactly what is needed at the moment, get the best of the best (if there is such a thing) together to try deal with our country's problems and stop the knife throwing!
 
According to the IMF's own projections, the general Government debt in Ireland will be 93% of GDP and the budget deficit will be 11.5% by the end of 2011. The corresponding figures for the UK are 94% and 12.5%.

Therefore, however bad we've got it, the UK is in a worse off position and, according to IMF figures, more likely to go bust.

The debt figures for USA and France will be even worse at 100% and 99% respectively.

So you must ask yourself the question, why so much negative press for Ireland? You would think that given that the UK is a much bigger economy and is in worse shape than Ireland, that it would be getting all the headlines?
 
But the UK has its own currency and in the worst case scenario can devalue.
 

I fully agree with you that the UK and US are in at least as bad a shape as Ireland. The problem is that the investment community does not believe the IMF, at least not in regards to Ireland. I for one believe the estimates are too optimistic.

RMCF said:
But the UK has its own currency and in the worst case scenario can devalue.
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Devaluing a currency is only a short term solution. And to foreign debtors, which Ireland has many of, currency devaluation is the same as defaulting on debt.
 
Fair play to Chris, csirl etc. At last some people are showing the fighting spirit of making an effort of keeping Ireland afloat, instead of playing Party Politics and damming the Government on a Public Forum. We are all collectively going to try and help pull the country out of this mess. By in fighting and making false efforts to try and dirty our own door steps will do nobody any good whatsoever.
 

Unfortunately, nothing anyone on this forum, or country for that matter, can say will be able to soil our doorstep any further. If I had any faith in any of the politicians I would gladly accept a national government and their solutions. But adding more economically inept politicians into the decision making process will only result in more disaster. Until I hear a politician or party advocate reducing debt and putting an end to the constant interference in the free market I see no other solution than to critisise everything they do.
 

It's like saying I'm still annoyed about a comment someone made to me while one a night out away on holidays a few years ago. Do you really believe the IMF care about a drop in the ocean like Ireland? They are ruthless to all, it's not personal. Hell why not just blame it on the brits like times of old!

That said - The level of applied knowledge in hindsight in this country at the moment is typical Irish and sickening. Cowan, when finance minister, raised the stamp duty threshold to 317K for FTB thus fueling house prices. FG and Labour criticised him for not making it higher! That went on and on!
The record of the opposition is proof that no matter whom was in government during this time, the same to very similiar would have happened.
We had an independent Banking regulator who clearly was not doing his job. If he was under political pressure not to do so he should come out and say so. Why is this guy not been put in the dock? He was only appointed in 2001, I think, so it's not as if there was a culture established within his office.
If Bertie Ahern was not so in bed with the trade unions we would not have have to pay for bench marking or the pay agreements which are crippling the country's competitiveness. Manufacturing is dead in Ireland due to our ridiculous minimum wage been too high. This is where FF did individually make a hames of things.
I would love to see a new government.. But have you seriously looked at the opposition? Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore!!. Mr 'I'm having whatever will get me in' and Mr 'I'm great at slagging the gov but I wont tell you any real policy's' - The country is broke and Eamon Gilmore would be bertie M11 with another trade Union 'love in' the country cant afford. Unless of course you want Sinn Fein's well thought out economic policy's.. FF wrote them on the back of an envelope but at least someone wrote them down.
Rub your hands together Enda, it's your best talent and seems like your a shoe in for the next dumb and dumber (general election) contest.
 
Tony McClure, what a well presented thought out post. I echo your sentiments 100% despite been slagged at supporting FF.

Well done -- 100%
 
mercman said:
I echo your sentiments 100% despite been slagged at supporting FF.
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Could all the Fianna Fail fanbois should show their love for de party by paying a special 10% "voting for corrupt incompetent gombeens levy" until the national debt is back down to the €38 billion figure it was when they took over please?

Mercman, has your mate Bertie got his tax clearance certificate yet?

I heard a team of researchers recently sequenced the Fianna Fail genome and found it to be mostly reptile crossed with donkey
 
Smartie Banks, do you really have to personalise this thread ? What alternatives have the opposition stated that they would put in place ? We have all waited for months for this and nothing has been forthcoming.

You are simply not prepared to accept that there are many countries in the same dilemma as Ireland. If Fine Gael wish to enter the gutter Politics mode let them play their own game, and have the small fry shouting from the sidelines, but I know enough about the misgivings of their hierarchy which would not really float my boat.

Until the personal insults to me have ceased, I'm finished on this game of charades.
 
Mercman - I believe in fighting our corner when its clear that we're not in as bad a shape as the media make out. However, I dont have confidence in the government.

Given that the figures for Ireland are not as bad as those for the UK and we've a lot more scope for raising revenue through taxation as our tax rates are lower than the UK, then its not the economic figures that the financial world has no confidence in. So what is it?

My guess is that its the Government - the finanicial world has little confidence in FF/Greens. I do think we should have a national government, but only AFTER an election so as to give the national government a popular mandate.
 
Is raising taxes the right way to go though? Will that not stop people spending, as they strive to hold on to what money they can???
 
PaddyW said:
Is raising taxes the right way to go though? Will that not stop people spending, as they strive to hold on to what money they can???
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Also, when people say Ireland is a low tax economy, it is low tax for people on low income. Around 50% of workers pay little or no tax. It is high tax for anyone earning between 35 and 80k - quite high compared with most western economies. So when people say we have scope for raising taxes - is it on the 50% of workers who pay little or no tax that they speak? The only other area in which we have low taxes is with regard to our corporate tax rate, and without that particular incentive Ireland would be a lot worse off. Very high income earners have been able to shelter their income, but as far as I understand it, some of those tax shelters have several more years to run, so the scope for clawing back taxes from them is limited.
 
When Ireland is described as a "low-tax" economy, it is in respect of all taxes added up.

The total level of tax in Ireland has been, and continues to be, much lower than other EU contries.

Here is the 2008 data across the EU:

[broken link removed]


Yes, it's true that tax on low incomes is particularly low in Ireland.

I feel that it could be increased a bit.


Note that although the headline CT rate of 12.5% is low, the CT yield is higher than other countries.
 
So when people say we have scope for raising taxes - is it on the 50% of workers who pay little or no tax that they speak?
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Yes. Everyone should pay something.
 
mercman said:
What alternatives have the opposition stated that they would put in place ?
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Inda said he wont stay up all night getting hammered before giving an interview on national radio




Era c'mon lads, another song before bedtime !!!

€350k a year for that mumbling oaf. Worth every penny wha mercman?
 
Originally Posted by [B said:
mercman[/B] http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1081520#post1081520
I echo your sentiments 100% despite been slagged at supporting FF.
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Robin Banks said:
Could all the Fianna Fail fanbois should show their love for de party by paying a special 10% "voting for corrupt incompetent gombeens levy" until the national debt is back down to the €38 billion figure it was when they took over please?
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I am not a FF supporter. You may be replying to mercman but he was replying to me. - Please take the time to read my post fully before wrongly having a go.
You ask me they are all the same as each other and along with bankers and unions who have all raped this country. Your incredibly naive to think otherwise or that the petty opposition has any better acumen.

Simon Coveney's behaviour today has cost this country by his parochial political point scoring.
You may not have thought of that as it does not occupy the space that is clearly a one blame fits all.
Argue for a meritocracy or something of real change instead of the opposition supporter 'I am angry' spin.
Please!
 
Troy McClure said:
Simon Coveney's behaviour today has cost this country by his parochial political point scoring.
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Troy, Simon merely pointed out that Emporer Cowen has no clothes.
Not popular maybe, but it has to be said.

The country does not need to be listening to slurred waffling from an overpaid half cut buffoon who's been singing in the pub until half three in the morning.

On the subject of the quality of the opposition vs the Fianna Fail gangsters - I am not naive, but don't think FG or Lab come anywhere near the levels of corruption, mefeinism & stroke politics that are the hallmarks of the Fianna Fail gombeen. This is the second time in thirty years that Fianna Fail have bankrupted the country.

Fianna Fail are not a political party, they are a cult. And they have destroyed Ireland, again.
 
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