Estate maintenance -we have to do it ourselves?

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serotoninsid

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After 4 years in a new estate, the builder has informed us that he will no longer finance the grass cutting and that it is now 'our responsibility'.

I remember reading about stuff like this before - so I suppose I'm pretty sure theres nothing we can do about it. Its highly unlikely that the council will take it on I would imagine.

Having said that, I thought I might ask - just in case anyone has been here before and has any ideas as to any other options might be available to us?
 
This is standard practice. In my estate me formed a committee and money is collected mostly by dd each month and we employ a lawnmower man to cut the grass.

We also get together a few times a year to plant flowers and pull weeds.
Works very well.
 
Hi smiley. Thanks for the reply. Our estate is small (35 houses) - more than half of them were buy-to-let's and the rest first time buyers. I take it there is no obligation for people to participate?
I'd imagine in our case, 50% wont...
 
It would depend on how you would approach the landlords or the buy to let houses.
It is in their best interest to have the estate looking well for when they are re-letting or if they ever went to sell so it's important to stress this to them. As the owners of the houses I feel they have just as much as an obligation to contribute. Most land lords in our estate contribute. We have 52 houses in our estate.
 
Has the estate been taken over yet by the Council? If not and I am open to correction I was under the impression that the builder had to maintain the estate. sorry if this is incorrect but someone informed me that this was the case.
 
Jimbo123 said:
Has the estate been taken over yet by the Council? If not and I am open to correction I was under the impression that the builder had to maintain the estate. sorry if this is incorrect but someone informed me that this was the case.
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Well, I was thinking the same thing (can anyone confirm for sure). Its not been taken over by the council (mayo co.co.) and I doubt it will be in the foreseeable. The situation was explained briefly to me by a neighbour and from what I understood the council would have to pay him a premium (or is it the other way around before it was taken over....??.....sorry a bit hazy on this as I had not heard of it before ..).
However, even if this is the case - that its the builders reponsibility - he says he 'has no money'. Is it possible to enforce this? I'm sure others have come across similar situations?
 
Our street of 7 semi's was recently taken over by the council but we still each pay in to a fund to have the grass cut.
 
jimbo123 said:
Has the estate been taken over yet by the Council? If not and I am open to correction I was under the impression that the builder had to maintain the estate. sorry if this is incorrect but someone informed me that this was the case.
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you are indeed correct!

The builder is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of open spaces until such time as he asks the council to take the estate into charge.

We kept our developer maintaining the open spaces as he would not furnish a letter to allow us to plant shrubs on the open spaces. He had later plans for more houses on these spaces during the time of "Greed" but we sucessfully won our case (3 times).
Eventually he had no option but to start the process to have the council take the estate into charge.

Factually, the responsibility for maintaining the open spaces should be indicated within the "grant of permission".

If not, have the council confirm he has requested the estate be taken into charge (probably not) or have him furnish a letter to that effect or to declare that the residents can have the legal title of ownership until such time the council take it over (he probably will not do this).

If both these avenues fail, call the planning enforcement officer and tell him that the developer has declared he will not maintain the space, quote chapter and verse from the "grant of permission" and threaten councillor intervention if this does not work.

Trust me this works, no one can afford grass cutting fees at the moment and it is a pain to collect from residents unless you have ownership of the spaces. Then you can apply for the amenity grant to assist but thats another story...............and too late if you live in Meath as the final date of application was today!

One of lifes learning tales, sorry if it is too long!
 
Fiskar said:
you are indeed correct!

The builder is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of open spaces until such time as he asks the council to take the estate into charge.
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In my case, I don't see much opportunity for the developer to build on the open space thats left. Is there any other reason why they would not have tried to hand over?
Fiskar said:
Factually, the responsibility for maintaining the open spaces should be indicated within the "grant of permission".
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I just checked the planning documents on the council website and whilst initial landscaping is specified, theres no mention at all of maintainance?

Maybe I will contact the Planing Enforcement Officer anyways for starters and see what he/she has to say on the matter.
The other thing is even if the develop is required to continue to maintain, will this be enforceable if he is claiming his company is in the red?
Fiskar said:
Trust me this works, no one can afford grass cutting fees at the moment and it is a pain to collect from residents unless you have ownership of the spaces.
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Yes, your right. Collection is definitely going to be a problem.
Fiskar said:
Then you can apply for the amenity grant to assist but thats another story
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. Not aware of this grant. Do you have any more info on it? How much is it worth?
 
The amenity grant for our estate <80 houses was worth €500 last year and we are looking for the same this year. Basically the council will give your estate the larger grant if you make it clear that you will maintain the open spaces with a contractor. But you need clarification of ownership of these spaces or else you are doing the developers work.

here is an extract from the planning regulations on estate finishing and taking into charge of developments.

The Planning and Development Act 2000 provides that where a housing development has been completed in accordance with the conditions of a planning permission and to the satisfaction of the local authority, the local authority must, if requested by the person carrying out the development or by a majority of the residents, take the estate in charge. Where the development has not been completed to the satisfaction of the local authority and no enforcement proceedings have been taken against the developer within seven years of the expiration of the planning permission, the estate shall be taken in charge if so requested by the majority of the residents.

I also attach this link which may help

http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/PlanningDevelopment/Planning/PlanningGuidance/

look at the guidance called Taking in Charge of Residential Developments Circular Letter PD 1/08

The council view will be that the developer continue to maintain the estate unless the process of taking into charge is initiated (by the developer) If he has not started this , will not give you a letter top indicate his transfer of the open spaces YOU are entitled to request the planning enforcement authority to request the developer continue to "maintain" the open space/s
 
Thanks for that Fiskar - I have mailed the Planning Enforcement Officer ref. whether the builder has applied for estate to be taken in charge and whether its a condition of planning that he has to maintain open spaces - so just waiting to hear back before I do anything else...
 
For the last 2 years I was the guy who collected the grass cutting money in our estate of 38 houses.

I tried to get some council help wrt dodgy pavements being broken/not finished and street lighting but the council have no interest. They said that the developer is responsible. He has gone bust a couple of years ago!!

Anyway, it is a bit of hassle to collect money as it usually takes a lot of trips around all the houses. People haven't the sense to see that its easier for them to come to me with their money rather than me have to troop round 38 houses about 4 or 5 times each summer. Anyway, have now washed my hands of it - some other mug's turn to do it.

It really is worthwhile though. Nothing worse than an ill-kept street. Most people do pay. We usually have about 8 or 10 houses that don't pay up. But there are people like this everywhere. And at the end of the day its a voluntary donation. If they don't want to pay its up to them.

I'm guessing it will be near on impossible to get local councils to accept any responsibility for any private estates over the next few years, due to cuts in their funding.
 
2 months have passed and aside from the initial letter from the CoCo planning dept confirming they would investigate and a one lined letter confirming receipt of my mail 1 month ago (looking for an update), I have heard nothing from them. How long should this normally take?
In the meantime, we have now been told that we will have to pay for street lighting shortly also.....
 
We have a similar situation at the moment...our development is a series of clusters around a link road. Each cluster has it's own MC. Our cluster is at the end of a spur off the the link road. Recently our MC has been asked to contribute to the cost of grass cutting on the link road.

I have huge issues with this, the road is 250m from the entrance to our cluster, and is currently owned by the developer who says he's not paying any more. The council are due to take the road in charge but won't pay for grass cutting. I don't understand how the developer can opt out of maintenance for as long as he retains ownership. If he does then there's at least a tiny chance the council will continue to maintain it. If all the clusters pay now, there's zero chance of the council maintaining it?

On street lighting OP - do you not already pay for that? We have done from day 1?
 
shesells said:
On street lighting OP - do you not already pay for that? We have done from day 1?
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No - have been here for 4 years and I actually thought it was the council that was doing the grass cutting and paying for the lighting!
To make matters worse, we have not had any sort of management company (in fact, we still don't - we just have a 'residents committee' setup in reaction to the withdrawal of these services) setup from day 1 - which means that we don't have any mechanism to make householders contribute. Only one third of the houses are owner occupied - the rest are rental.
 
As far as I'm aware each council has its own protocol ( should be available on their website) about taking estates in charge.


There is a difference between 'historic' estates and others. Historic estates are ones where the council cannot take enforcement action against the developer due to the passage of time - usually 12 years from the date of the grant of planning. In these estates if a majority of residents/owner-occupiers make a request to the council they have to initiate proceedings under the Roads act to take the estate in charge.

Check your own councils protocol and you should see time limits that they are supposed to adhere to. No harm in trying anyway.
 
Just to update..
I have heard back from the Council. They have sent on a letter to the developer to say that he is in breach of planning relating to the development. I just wonder is that it - or is there any other loophole? ie. can the developer ignore this without the council pursuing him and enforcing planning law? Can he claim lack of funds ie. what would happen if the development co. was put into liquidation?
Thanks in advance to anyone who has any futher insight into this type of scenario..
 
Hi all

In same situation in Co. Cork (I started another thread by mistake ( http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=138847 ) as I missed this one when searching).

I've just looked over the original planning permission for the development.

*Condition 10 - The developer shall be responsible for the maintenance of all roads, footpaths, open spaces, and other services until taken in charge by the council at its discretion.

How is this enforceable?
 

At this stage get a councillor involved, you need answers and these people usually have them
 
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