Estate agents should not be allowed to claim a property is in Castleknock, when it's not


Not in the least. But you aren't arguing for transparency. Not really. The information you wish to protect is publicly available already to anyone with an interest in it. False advertising is currently not allowed, but putting "Castleknock" into a search engine and getting back 130 properties within the general area does not constitute false advertising. Post regularly arrives at houses addressed "Castleknock" that aren't strictly within the townland boundary of that name.

I am guessing that fundamentally you think that tightly defining the area will level the playing field for a property you are selling since a search will then only return a fewer number of properties. It won't. You can still attend Castleknock college if you live outside of the townland of Castleknock. You can still socialise and shop there. You probably in truth won't ever be bothered by anti-social activity even outside of Castleknock and frankly, the "protection" of a townland boundary is non-existent. Anti-social behaviour doesn't suddenly cease at a townland boundary. Short of erecting a wall around the boundary, you can't keep them out. And anti-social behaviour is not necessarily the exclusive preserve of less salubrious areas.


I think I have fairly addressed the point he has raised rather than deriding him for raising it. I agree - not all issues are of national or international importance but what the OP has proposed has no substantive grounding even within his own immediate circumstances. As I pointed out to him, the putative law does not mean people will be more likely to pay the price he is looking for his property.
 
Johnjane said:
There have been cases where developers have been sued successfully for assigning more affluent addresses to sell their less desirable located properties.
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If they are being successfully sued, is there something wrong with the current legislation they are being found transgressing?
 
I was referring to the public schooling in the area, although having the private Castleknock college in the location can only increase the areas interest thereby increasing the value. Its not a hindrance anyway but not included in what schools I was referring to. I was referring to non fee paying public schools. Not all buyers take action against developers when in fact they should and I encourage it. This issue is an economic issue and a very big case of fraud. Instead of having people sued a quick fix would be to add a section to the law clarifying that misrepresenting a property is illegal. Simply done and problem sorted.
 
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Johnjane said:
So how can estate agents and property developers be allowed to sell houses under the townland name of Castleknock when these houses are clearly not within the borders of the Castleknock townland?
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Because they are within the barony of Castleknock, which covers a much wider area than Castleknock townland or the civil parish of Castleknock. I used to live in that area and it was always a bone of contention as to where Castleknock ended and Blanchardstown began.
 

There are no Jewish settlements in Gaza. Just saying
 
Barony is not townland. It refers to the Baron who owned specific land that came under the his control. Lord Lucan I believe owned as far away as mayo..but you couldn't call that area lucan. Townlands are what define areas.
 

I think we are not agreeing with you that is constitutes misrepresentation. We also do not see the value of the law you are proposing. Very few people can afford to buy a house, regardless of whether it is in Castleknock or Hartstown, without looking at where it actually is. You delude yourself into thinking that this means people will be willing to pay the premium for your property if they only knew it was true Castleknock. They won't be.

Fundamentally your problem is the price point for properties in your area limits your potential buying population to a small group, which has further been shrunk relatively recently by the Central Bank guidelines. The imposition of a 20% deposit means that if you have a property valued at 500k someone now needs a deposit of 100k - if they had saved the 50k it is a fair leap for the vast majority of people to suddenly find that extra 50k in short order, there will be people who have been set back because they simply have to save that increase in a deposit. Then there is the income required to support a mortgage of 400k. Simply put - the number of people looking right now to spend the sort of money you are looking for is small. It will remain so. Your "law" won't make people more inclined to pay more than they can afford - simply to ensure they are in Castleknock "proper".

One of the problems with a valuable house is the trouble with offloading it. The more pricey it is the fewer can afford it, this is a primary trigger for how areas start the long descent. The potential family buyer gets priced out, properties start to move to multi-unit living and rental, slowly but surely values erode. If you want to maintain a nice area you need to keep it affordable for "middle-class" buyers who want the whole house - not just the address.

Johnjane said:
Barony is not townland. It refers to the Baron who owned specific land that came under the his control. Lord Lucan I believe owned as far away as mayo..but you couldn't call that area lucan. Townlands are what define areas.
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Actually there are several definitions of area and barony is a valid one - welcome to Castleknock
Here's the barony
http://www.townlands.ie/dublin/castleknock2/

And here is the civil parish
http://www.townlands.ie/dublin/castleknock1/

And here is the townland
http://www.townlands.ie/dublin/castleknock/castleknock/castleknock/

They are all validly "Castleknock"
 
This is getting a bit silly. Barony is historical. Barony once straddled what are now multiple counties. News laws since supercede the barony. Townlands are what define the borders of one town area to another. Blanchardstown is not Castleknock. There is no argument to say so that could possibly be logical. Its laughable really trying to prove that. Its not a fact. Are you trying to also argue that the parish supercedes townlands? Ridiculous. Blanchardstown is now Castleknock...That's blatant misrepresentation. That's as good as you've got? You don't happen to live in carpenterstown do you?
 
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Its funny. I went to private school in South Dublin even though I am from North Co. Dublin so don't even get a postcode! Some of my best friends to this day are from the more affluent parts of South Dublin and yet the only tossers I ever heard talk about where they live like it mattered were people from Castleknock.
 
By the way Castleknock is a lovely area but it's not Nirvana. Same thing happens with Malahide and swords. Firhouse and Tallaght. Cabinteely and Blackrock. Who cares. As MF1 says, people aren't stupid. They know where they buy. If they are stupid enough to fall for it then that's their problem.
 

It isn't at all silly. It is entirely pertinent. You seem to think that "townland" has a special significance. It doesn't. It is as valid to refer to the old civil parish list or the old baronies as it is to refer to "townland". They represent an accretion of local government over centuries. Do you consider townlands a modern innovation? They aren't. And they don't define "one town area to another" townlands (shockingly) are used in rural areas too - where there never was a town. In fact they are more useful there. To this day (as I have already pointed out), they remain in common currency in rural Ireland as people's given address - despite the introduction of the eircode. Their purpose was entirely administrative, a pen pushers guide to Ireland. How to repackage the country for the Plantations and occupation by the English. You cannot have it every way. You cannot decide to base your putative law on the townland boundaries agreed in the first Ordinance Survey (or subsequently updated) and ignore the civil parishes, baronies, counties and ridings that also existed. Alternatively, if you want to start using modern district electoral divisions you need to start considering your address as being Castleknock-Knockmaroon Electoral Division....
 
Oh and Blanchardstown is most certainly in both the barony and the civil parish of Castleknock - to be pedantic about it.
 
I never disputed the facts of the barony. I disputed its authority. Townland borders do supercede parish and barons when dividing land. That's just a plain fact. Electoral division are not divisions of land. To say any of these statements you've made are true is in fact false. The reason people in Castleknock care is because other areas near it are misrepresenting their location thereby falsely increasing the value of properties, which reduces the 'scarcity' of available property for sale in Castleknock, thereby reducing its value. Scarcity increases value. Its about money.
 
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Actually you did dispute it - you imbue townland with a special validity or "authority" because it aligns best to what you view as the desirable area. Electoral districts are very definitely divisions of land and are mapped. What, pray tell, makes you think they aren't? Oh and Civil parishes actually still exist legally though they are rarely used. Townlands are simply smaller areas.

The trouble is you favour using "townland" only because it suits you.
 
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