Engagement rings and diamonds in Antwerp

hi mouldy.what ring did you buy? what weight and colour,clairty is it.i'd be curious what the name of the shop is where you got valuation?

Mrtgbad

You are trolling.

Quote #90) "I checked out Harold's prices and found him only ok compared too the high street jewellers...his cert is a hrd which is not recommended. apparently they are not worth the paper they are written on."

I've asked you twice to provide some proof for this ludicrous claim. You have not.

Quote #93) "but HRD certs are not great at all..GIA are excellent.source was several dublin2 jewellery shops.and much research."

What shops, where's the evidence your research provided?

Quote(#95) "you have no come back... you travelling to antwerp will be sold the DUD diamond ...plus you have NO after sales service....and I wouldnt be a fool to give a large ball of money to a overseas shopkeeper."

All nonsense. What planet are you living on? Do you have any experience or proof of this? No, you don't. Because you've never even set foot in Antwerp and you entire experience of the diamond market there seems to be one quote from one dealer.
If HRD certs are not worth the paper they are written on, as you claim, then the information would be plastered all over the internet. But I've found exactly the opposite and asked you twice for your info, which you have declined to give.
Anyone reading this thread should ignore all of your posts.

I've said all I'm going to say on this thread. The Mods should delete all of our posts from #90 on, or just lock it, as its serving no purpose anymore.
Of course if you want to prove me wrong, just post 5 reputable sites that confirm your opinion on HRD certs.

M

Good post...Mrgtbad is talking nonsense, for either naive or sinister reasons. This is a valuable thread so locking it would be a bad idea.

sorry to be hijacking the thread with an unrelated question but what does 'trolling' mean?

I would almost bet my life savings that mrgtbad is either a jeweller or someone with a vested interest, honestly, there is a thing called subtlety....
Going overseas is a rip off......hmmmm, let me see, bought a ring there last year for 8k and when I got it home had it independently valued at 20k.
Mrgtbad, just stop misleading people, please.
The big rip off is shops in dublin, who have at least a 1-200% markup on their prices, but hey, someone will clean it for you once a year, woohoo.

Randombloke

girls girls, calm down.
first muldy,ive heard it from several people in the trade.its what they said not me.they are the experts.i respect privacy so i wont give there names.youll just have to get over that.so what you should do is enquire not from online sourses, but from real people who work in the trade..you obviously have not read what i said.different companys have different ways of certing..reading you post you seem very upset about HRD certs.you must have one.fact is igi certs and gia certs are excellent.
what i was told about HRD would upset you.but i was told this by people in the trade.you go do your own footwork and youll find out.
who is Mods?why should he stop free speech.ive just drawn your attention to some other things,ie travelling is not cheap and the pressure to buy in a day or two.2 hcolour si diamonds are NOT the same.and you treaten to close the link ?people can read and make up there own minds. so what ring did you buy? come on muldy.what is the weight and colour,clairty .i'd be curious what the name of the shop is where you got valuation?why wont you answer.answer and next week ill drop in to town and visit a couple of jewellers.then you might prove me wrong and i will be embarrassed.

you too randombloke.what am i misleading you about.i quoted from antwerp 5200 and identical ring in dublin available for a few hundred more.i dont see that as a big rip off.what colourclarity weight and metal did you buy for 8000?

valuations are for insurance purposes and are inflated.dont shoot me,, its just something i heard. has no one else heard this??

Trolling is making outrageous statements just to stir up controversy...moderators (mods) are individuals who police a site like this, looking for anomolies such as people with vested interests making outlandish claims.

Mrgtbad, your posts make no sense at all and it's obvious you're either in the jewellery game or close to people who are. The opinions/"facts" you've been promoting are without foundation. I have recently purchased an engagement ring abroad for what I consider to be a substantial sum of money. A lot of time, effort and research went into my decision so at this stage I know my stuff. There is nothing wrong with HRD certificates...quite the opposite in fact. Some of the rings I looked at in Applebys for example had HRD certificates. I don't think anyone would accuse them of being "dodgy". As for your assertion about buying in 1 or two days this is not an issue. I liased with the jeweller over quite a long period of time and got exactly what I wanted.
The fact is that when it comes to jewellery, like most things, Ireland is off the wall when it comes to prices. 100% mark ups are the norm in this business. I did a fair bit of leg work myself on this topic and the saving are huge which convinces me your story about the €5200 ring and the price differential is either inaccurate or untrue.
This is a valuable thread, one I've overheard being discussed in Dublin believe it or not

Hi all

Just a quick post to let you know my fiance and i have had first hand experience of buying a ring from Harold in Antwerp, He is A1, his expertise is just amazing, Prior to us travelling , we shopped around the jewellers in Dublin to get an idea of what style I wanted and also the cost of rings here, we went to antwerp to get better value for money as opposed to save money ! We spent the same budget in antwerp but got much better quality for our money from Harold. I had been emailing Harold prior to us arriving so he had an idea of what I wanted and had sourced the relative diamonds and then Upon arrival Harold had 5 diamonds for us to choose from and he explained the qualities of each in great detail,When I chose the diamond I liked most he then had a few ring settings to choose from, he then sits the loose diamond into the setting to give u an idea of what the finished product will be like.
I felt the solitaire on its own was too plain so he suggested 5 diamonds down each side and then he also set these with tiny diamonds, so none of the band can be seen, the diamonds are on the ring as opposed to in the ring on the shoulders, We came back the next evening and the finished product was even nicer than I imagined it would be
Since coming back it has been valued at EUR 2400 more than what my fiance paid for it.
It is HRD certified but many of the rings I tried in Applebys, weirs and Breretons and Fields were also HRD certified.
The flights and hotel only cost us EUR 350 so it was definitely worth our while going.
Also, my ring is quite unusual, I have had so many compliments on how unusual it is from friends and family since we announced our engagement.
So my advise would be head to Antwerp !!!
I emailed a photo of my ring and all its criteria eg color,cut. clarity etc to diamant.ie and he quote me EUR 1975 more than what we paid so again he is taking his cut for going to antwerp to get ure diamond !! Go ureself !!

hi

glad to hear that antwerp was worth the trip, thinking of heading as well myself to have a look, wat kind of ring did u get and for how much? did you check out any other places or just harolds?

Hi Garyf

I had looked up [broken link removed] thats a guild that recommends jewellers and i emailed all 5 listed here but found harold to be the best, we shopped around here to get an idea of what i wanted and i emailed harold what i was looking for, our budget and he came back with suggestions.
Then when we arrived over there we did look in other jewellers also but harold was the most helpful and professional, not pushy at all.
his website is [broken link removed]
I got a white gold princess cut solitaire, 1 carat and it was mounted with 5 diamonds down each side, totalling .17 carats, so in total the ring is 1.17 carat set in an 18 carat white gold band, G colour, VVs1.My fiance paid EUR 3200 and we have had it valued here much higher.
I know this prob sounds very biased but in all honesty I have not seen a ring of it's style here in any of the jewellers, there are plenty of similiar ones but they are not as nice !!
Are u going to take ure fiancee to be with you ?
let me know if you do decide to go as Harold gave us a " loyalty card number " so if anyone purchases from him with a recommendation from us then he will give them a discount, which is worth ure while

hi excited,
wow thats and excellent price, i will be travelling on my own but i have more than a fair idea of the kind of ring she wants, i have been emailing harold but he wouldnt quote any prices and said he would forward a catalogue which i am still waiting for. but it does seem like its the place to go, since the daimonds have the same certification as here only a lot more expensive its really a no brainer!

Hi GaryF

he prob cant give u a price until u give him an idea of the exact style ure looking for, i chose a ring from applebys and then emailed him a photo of it from their website so he knew exactly the type of style I wanted

I dont mean to speak out of turn but would u not consider asking ure girlfriend to go with you, The ring I always thought I would want when I tried it on didnt suit my finger at all :-(

A word of advice do not stay at the Astoria hotel we checked in and left after 3 rooms were deplorable ! We moved to the park plaza which is opp central station and really nice

I will PM you some extra advice !

hi Excited.
you said,,

got a white gold princess cut solitaire, 1 carat and it was mounted with 5 diamonds down each side, totalling .17 carats, so in total the ring is 1.17 carat set in an 18 carat white gold band, G colour, VVs1.My fiance paid EUR 3200 and we have had it valued here much higher.

i will be having salt and pepper with my hat which i will now eat.that is excellent.harold offered me 1ct h si for 5200.which was not excellent

regards

hi excited

well iv arranged a meeting with harold for 3 wks time so hopefully all goes to plan, but so far he has been very helpful through email so i expect my trip should be worth it

Hi,

I have visited this post many times over the last number of months and found it extremely helpful in choosing my girlfriends engagement ring.

I did a lot of research into diamond prices in Ireland and visited a large number of Jewelers in Dublin, Clare, Limerick & Wexford. Even within Ireland, there is a large difference in price.

Without doubt, Antwerp is the place to go to purchase a Diamond. You are immediately cutting out the middle man. Nearly every Jeweler I visited mentioned that all diamonds were bought in Antwerp. There would appear to be a number of posts suggesting that this is not the case…. I struggle to see the logic in this!!

My original budget was 10k & wished to maybe keep this budget and increase the quality and size of the diamond by traveling to Antwerp. However, after trying on Many rings anything much over a Carrot looked too big. We were looking for a traditional YG Band with a high Solitaire set in WG.

While the color of the Diamond is important the cut & the table % is more important. An excellent cut G color has far more sparkle than a poorly cut E color. This is something that a lot of Jewelers don’t mention. Most concentrate on color & weight of the diamond. When you go to Antwerp, the loose diamond is presented in the correct light and everything about it is explained to you (Color, Clarity, Weight, Cut). Therefore its hard to make an exact price comparison with a Diamond in Antwerp & Ireland.

I made 2 visits to Antwerp. I was looking for a D color, Excellent Cut, with the best % table possible. In relation to clarity, small inclusions cannot be seen with the human eye. Even with the proper magnifying glass I find it extremely hard. Clarity makes a big difference in price. Therefore I was happy with VS1 or SI.

No preference in relation to HRD/IGI/GIA. These are all widely recognized. Some Jewelers in Ireland had very little certified diamonds. A lady in Paul Sheeran informed us she could grade the diamonds herself?? Keans Jewelers in Limerick mainly stocked uncertified diamonds, it would cost an additional 600 euro for a certified diamond.


The Diamond I purchased was:
D 1.17ct, VS1, Excellent Cut, 64% table. 7,650 (Revealing Hearts & Arrows under a special Scope)

Here are a few comparisons:

• Appleby –
  

1.04ct EVS 12,495

1.00ct ESI 10,000

1.00ct DSI 10,690

• Fines Limerick:

1.01[FONT=&quot] FVS2 10,800[/FONT]

• Fields: .94ct FVS1 8,795

• Weir & Sons: 1.01 DSI 12,820 (.16ct Smaller – Same Clarity)

• Hynes (Wexford) 1.22 GSI 12,850

• Donovan & Matson 1.25ct DSI 11,500 (.08t larger – Lower Clarity)

These prices speak for themselves – the trip to Antwerp is well worth it. I have yet to have the diamond independently valued however, from looking around I would imagine I saved about 40%.


I stayed at the Park Plaza twice – excellent hotel. No Complaints. I can recommend a restaurant called “The Bistro” for great food. It is situated off the main shopping street in Antwerp. No idea of the street name.


Thank you for all your help, please feel PM me with any questions.


My tip would be to shop around Antwerp, visit all the well respected Jewelers in the Area. I can guarantee you will come back to Phillipp Harold. He without doubt was the most helpful, professional, informative & patient. He did not speak to us like a sales person. We changed our mind 3 times on the setting and had a huge amount of pitures e-mailed to us.

sounds like mrtgbad knows an awful lots about the diamond trade in dublin, that kinda knowledge plus an inability to see the huge difference in prices between dublin and antwerp would kinda point towards strong connections to the dublin industry,.....

hi bamboozle.
no , i just did my research.and if you had read my post you would have seen that harold offered me a diamond for one i could get here for extra 500 euro.plus i dont have to travel, risk my money , book hotel, rush buy and have no real come back. ie look at all those people who have lost money in this property company overseas this week.they have NO COMEBACK! they foolishly put there money at risk. and bamboozle what do you think of eoin28's post.now there is someone who seems to know loads....or does he.hes bought a diamond with a massive 64% table.but i did a quick search and 55%is recommended. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_cut
another website says it sacrifices the brillance of the diamond.
so much for the helpful sales talk.pulled the wool over the eyes more like it.
http://www.bridaldiamond.com/info/how-to-read-gem-cert.cfm
it says "Judged by any standards this is a dull and lifeless diamond. The table should not exceed 63% and the pavilion depth will leak a substantial amount of light. "

so now what to do?


if eoin28 is upset he will have to book a flight €190.lose a weekend.hassle travel thru airport.book another hotel€140 per night.visit shop and hope against hope that they would change it.otherwise he (like those investors in a certain overseas property company) would be ..whats the word.?

hi mouldy.
will start search.heres number 1
http://www.bridaldiamond.com/info/how-to-read-gem-cert.cfm
. Which Gem Lab issued the diamond grading report?This is a crucial and often overlooked factor in the evaluation of your diamond. We’ve been buying diamonds for over 40 years and can say without reservation that some labs are very strict in their Color and Clarity grades and some labs are soft in their grades. When it comes to Cut, the numbers speak for themselves. However, Color and Clarity are subjective to a gemologist’s opinion. A single bump in either Color or Clarity grade will increase the market value of a 1 carat diamond by about 10% and a 2 carat diamond by about 20%.

If you view a diamond in our inventory that is priced substantially less than another diamond with similar Weight, Cut, Clarity and Color standards, take note of the lab that issued the grading report. The most reliable and strict grading reports are issued by AGS and GIA. This does not mean that buying a diamond with a report from another lab is a bad deal. You should simply be aware that the Color or Clarity may be a grade lower than stated, and evaluate the price accordingly .
If you find what appears to be an extraordinary value on a stone evaluated by EGL, IGI, HRD, or AIG, we invite you to call our diamond buyer, Andy Marcum at (800) 418-7678. He will evaluate the stone personally and issue an informal opinion, at no cost, that is probably more representative of the true value of the diamond you have in mind. It may be a great bargain, even if the gemlab certificate overstates Color or Clarity.
There are several articles in the trade press that document the differences in grade ratings from various labs. You can read more here, or ask any trusted local jeweler about their opinion. The industry consensus is broad and in general agreement about the reliability of grading from different gem labs.

mouldy will i go on.even im bored..

[broken link removed]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]GemLovers![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]rough rock Posts: 7
Fromarkhill, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000[/FONT]
[broken link removed] [FONT=Verdana, Arial][FONT=Verdana, Arial]posted 01-06-2001 10:39 PM [/FONT]I've noticed that diamonds with HRD certs out of Belgium are much lower in price. For a diamond with an HRD cert the prices seem to be 25% less or two diamond grades. Is this how Different the HRD grading is (two lower than the diamond would grade GIA)? Thanks![/FONT]

[broken link removed][broken link removed][broken link removed][FONT=Verdana, Arial]leonid[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Administrator Posts: 196
From:
Registered: Jul 2000[/FONT]
[broken link removed] [FONT=Verdana, Arial][FONT=Verdana, Arial]posted 01-06-2001 11:37 PM [/FONT]25% is a big difference indeed. Could you post the data here to compare? There is a site selling mostly HRD graded stones cut in Belgium - www.gendiat.com . First time I've seen it I was interested since you can find crown and pavilion angles for each stone. However, when I checked them by the Cut Adviser, I realized that all of them are awfully deep cut, i.e. much extra weight and dully look. [/FONT]

Sorry, i know I said I'd leave this alone.

Hi Mrtgbad

Thanks for the sites, I’ll have a read of them asap.


However I interested in your post on this thread

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=394628#post394628

Where you say you had your ring made for you in a workshop in Dublin, which was 30% cheaper than Dublin shops. Well done!

Quote#3

"we used a workshop in dublin and we were very happy.he handmade a beautiful singlestone diamond ring in platinum.it was 30%cheaper than going into a shop.if your intrested i'll get u the number.gtb"

So if that was 30% cheaper than going into a shop, and the price you paid was 4800 for the diamond (according to #90 on this thread) then the shop was charging est. 6857. Harold offered you the same one for 5200 and would have given you 25% off to pay in cash = 3900

So the actual difference between the high street and Antwerp, using your figures, is 2957 euros for that diamond.