Enforcement Order - on the dole

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coolatjc

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What happens if a credit pushed for an enforcment order on a debt but the debtor has no means to pay their debt?

For example if a person of 20 years of age had the dole income of €100 per week and a debt owed to the creditor for €14,000 but real outgoings of €100 per week, how would a judge act? How could an enforcement order be made?

Also what will a judge allow as a legitimate cost?

For Instance will a judge allow you to deduct Sky, Telephone, Broadband etc or are these seen as luxuries you can do with out?

Does the court grant you a standard of living when considering Enforcement orders?
 
Once the judge hears the debtor is on €100 a week dole, he will dismiss the application with liberty to re-enter if the debtors circumstances improve. Most district court judges will not give an order against any person in receipt of social welfare.

Creditors can push all they like but at the end of the day the judge will decide. In general judges do not dissect the ins and outs of a debtors spending.
 
bond-007 said:
Once the judge hears the debtor is on €100 a week dole, he will dismiss the application with liberty to re-enter if the debtors circumstances improve. Most district court judges will not give an order against any person in receipt of social welfare.

Creditors can push all they like but at the end of the day the judge will decide. In general judges do not dissect the ins and outs of a debtors spending.
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Thanks for your reply.

Can I just ask one further thing, If the judge eforces the order or dismiss the application with liberty, will the interest be frozen or held at the date of enforcement? Or does interest continue to increase the size of the debt each year?
 
Interest will continue to amount at a rate of 8% per year from the date of the original judgement.
 
bond-007 said:
Interest will continue to amount at a rate of 8% per year from the date of the original judgement.
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Once again thankyou for your reply.

Can I just ask about the interest, how can a court seriously expect the debtor to pay interst at 8% per year when they cant even pay the debt?

This ensures the debtor is guarenteed to a lifetime of debt, and within 10 year the debt could have doubled!

I can understand under normal circumstances, but considering todays climate and the governments handiling of the economy, the likelyhood of anyone on welfare finding employment within the next few years being zero.

Is there no way the debtor can make an application to have the interest frozen?

Thanks again for your help.
 
Also, the debt can become statuate barred, 12 years once a court judgement has been obtained.
If no court judgement has happened it would become statute barred after 6 years.

See; Askaboutmoney.com Court Judgements question. 7/12/2009
 
o'grainne said:
Also, the debt can become statuate barred, 12 years once a court judgement has been obtained.
If no court judgement has happened it would become statute barred after 6 years.

See; Askaboutmoney.com Court Judgements question. 7/12/2009
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So if someone receives a summons of enforcement but are unable to to pay because no means, does this mean unless their circumstances change after 12 years the creditor can no longer chase for money or seek an application to the court for enforcement?
 
They can make an application for enforcement any time during those 12 years. But they only have 12 years from the date of original judgement to chase the money. Once those 12 years are up they are out of luck.

Generally the game plan is to get judgement, slap a judgement mortgage on any property owned and then get an instalment order. If the debtor sells his house during the 12 years they will get their money with interest. Of course if there is no property all they have left is the instalment order. Over the 12 years they make get very little back of the original debt.
 
I am not a solicitor but that is my understanding of statute barred.
I don't know though if the other side can re-apply to the court before to time limit is up to update their demand for payment?
 
bond-007 said:
They can make an application for enforcement any time during those 12 years. But they only have 12 years from the date of original judgement to chase the money. Once those 12 years are up they are out of luck.

Generally the game plan is to get judgement, slap a judgement mortgage on any property owned and then get an instalment order. If the debtor sells his house during the 12 years they will get their money with interest. Of course if there is no property all they have left is the instalment order. Over the 12 years they make get very little back of the original debt.
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Can the creditor reapply for a new judgment if the 12 year old judgment is coming near to expiry?

And what would happen if say on year 11 the debtor started to repay the debt, could they refuse to pay any further payments of the debt using the Stat Bared rule?

Thanks again to both of you.
 
Can the creditor reapply for a new judgment if the 12 year old judgment is coming near to expiry?
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No.
And what would happen if say on year 11 the debtor started to repay the debt, could they refuse to pay any further payments of the debt using the Stat Bared rule?
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They certainly could. The thing is not many people would be well up on the rules. ;)
 
coolatjc said:
For example if a person of 20 years of age had the dole income of €100 per week and a debt owed to the creditor for €14,000 but real outgoings of €100 per week, how would a judge act? How could an enforcement order be made?
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DO you mind if I ask how a 20 year old managed to get into €14k of debt?
 
Complainer said:
DO you mind if I ask how a 20 year old managed to get into €14k of debt?
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They took out a car on Finance. They had a good job that paid over 30K, This was their first ever finance agreement.

Like most people they lost their job, and the Finance company a well known scottish bank wouldnt allow them reduced payments.

They reppossed their car and have come after them for the remainder.

Of course thanks to the lovely government they have had their welfare cut in half, and cant make ends meet. Having this around their neck was dragging them down, and legal aid told them there is a 6 month backlog before they could see them.
 
coolatjc said:
They reppossed their car and have come after them for the remainder.

.
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Why would they go after someone who has no money and no assets? Are there assets? It costs money for the Scottish Bank to go to court so if the person corresponded with them and told them they have nothing they will probably stop pursuing the person.
 
In this particular case, the problem is that the 20 year old would need to stay on the dole for 12 years to avoid paying the debt. Any 20 year old who does this will become unemployable and spend the rest of their life living in poverty - a much worse position that paying off some or all of the debt.

The best advice you could give the 20 year old is to keep trying to get a job and pay off the loan - dont throw your life away for the sake of 14k.
 
How about going to the likes of MABS and getting them to negotiate a reduced final payment. The banks write off lots of debt this way with BIG companies and take a fraction of what they are owed. Could try a Credit Union loan to to this as the Credit Unions are easier to deal with.
Also this outstanding loan could affect your credit rating in the future.
 
Bronte said:
Why would they go after someone who has no money and no assets? Are there assets? It costs money for the Scottish Bank to go to court so if the person corresponded with them and told them they have nothing they will probably stop pursuing the person.
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He has tried to negotiate, but they wanted more than he could pay. For some reason they are like a dog with a bone, pushing all the way.

csirl said:
In this particular case, the problem is that the 20 year old would need to stay on the dole for 12 years to avoid paying the debt. Any 20 year old who does this will become unemployable and spend the rest of their life living in poverty - a much worse position that paying off some or all of the debt.

Can anyone see Ireland getting out of this mess? He is considering walking away from his debt and leaving the country looking to start a new life elsewhere.

The best advice you could give the 20 year old is to keep trying to get a job and pay off the loan - dont throw your life away for the sake of 14k.
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If he could get a job he would, simply put he would.

o'grainne said:
How about going to the likes of MABS and getting them to negotiate a reduced final payment. The banks write off lots of debt this way with BIG companies and take a fraction of what they are owed. Could try a Credit Union loan to to this as the Credit Unions are easier to deal with.
Also this outstanding loan could affect your credit rating in the future.
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He couldnt even pay them a €1,000.

The debt was 21k or there about, car was valued at €18,000 and interest around €3,000. He took the loan out when he was 19.

They took the car back and sold it for €4,000, disgustingly well below the actual retail price. Despite him pleading with them to let him sell it. He had a family friend who owned a garage offering €8,000.

I believe he had around €17,000 left on the finance, so with the sale of the car it was reduced to €13,000 however because of this 8% interest rule the amount has now increased to €14,000 again.

Now I may have a few figures slightly out, by this is the main summing up of his plight. I suggested to him to get out of Ireland as there is nothing here for the young anymore, but he wants to remain closer to his family, however the bank is doing there very best to push him out of Ireland.
 
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