Employer wants to change rules

Q

quarterfloun

Registered User
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117
My employer is considering moving me and my colleagues from a basic plus 10% commission to 40% commission only.

On current sales this would make little difference to my annual income however I would have a gap between last basic pay and before 40% kicks in.

I also would be forced down the self employed route - one I'm not particularly comfortable with.

Do I/we have to take his offer?
Assuming I/we refuse can he make me or all of us redundant?

Anybody got any dos, dont's, watch out for etc.

Thanks.
 
quarterfloun said:
My employer is considering moving me and my colleagues from a basic plus 10% commission to 40% commission only.

[...]

I also would be forced down the self employed route - one I'm not particularly comfortable with.
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The 'self-employed' issue is probably a bigger issue. If this really is their plan, they are effectively making your position redundant, and usual redundancy payments would apply.

How many people are affected? Any unions involved?
 
No unions, there are 3 or 4 of us and all of us have been here for about 6 months so I do not see redundancy payments coming across the horizon.

The base line is that our employer is a known "chancer" and never pays bills on time if at all.

As far as I'm concerned I'd rather do the job for myself and take 100% but I'm concerned for my other colleagues who cannot easily make decisions. I just want to be as informed as I can be.

Can he force this on us..ie if we say no thanks, we would like to stay as is. Also how can the position be "redundant" if he is willing to allow us to stay in the same desks, doing the same job, using the same equipment, talking to the same clients etc.
 
quarterfloun said:
The base line is that our employer is a known "chancer" and never pays bills on time if at all.
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Do you reckon your bills (i.e. your invoices as a self-employed contractor) will be treated in the same cavalier manner?
quarterfloun said:
As far as I'm concerned I'd rather do the job for myself and take 100% but I'm concerned for my other colleagues who cannot easily make decisions. I just want to be as informed as I can be.
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What makes you think you'll get 100%? You'll still be liable for tax & PRSI as a contractor. You'll probably need the services of an accountant to help you with this.

quarterfloun said:
Can he force this on us..ie if we say no thanks, we would like to stay as is. Also how can the position be "redundant" if he is willing to allow us to stay in the same desks, doing the same job, using the same equipment, talking to the same clients etc.
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As a general rule, I don't think he can do this. Contact these guys for expert help. Revenue may well deem you to be employees anyway regardless of what your employer says.

The problem is that 'what will he do if you refuse?' - As you are less than 12 months there, you are not protected by unfair dismissals legislation. However, in the current Irish Ferries environment, you might be able to attract political and/or regulatory support for your position.
 
Regarding the 100% - we are in recruitment and have access to candidates and clients - no issues about setting up a company, getting it licensed and trading as a new outfit and getting away from our cavalier employer apart from the 8 weeks or more it takes to get the license....I'm also convinced our bills would not be paid (as you so rightly pointed out) so these questions are more based around damage limitation and getting the best deal for us before this explodes as it will. I've been through illness, redundancy etc. before and I'm old enough to see the writing on the wall - I just have no experience of the Irish system.

As I see it we have little rights in his mind and he will flatten us so it's trying to find a pleasant way out of all of this, buy as much time as we can and do it for ourselves.
 
quarterfloun said:
Regarding the 100% - we are in recruitment and have access to candidates and clients - no issues about setting up a company, getting it licensed and trading as a new outfit and getting away from our cavalier employer apart from the 8 weeks or more it takes to get the license..
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I'm still not getting the '100%' issue. 100% of what?
 
Hi QF,

Is your current pay structure is Basic + 10% of sales revenue generated by yourself?

If this is correct then when you speak about taking 100% you are talking about setting up your own company.

If you are good at what you do and are not averse to some risk then perhaps the 100% option might be the best for you.

aj
 
My current salary is basic plus 10% of all fees (less VAT).
100% of the fees would be typically 120K less my costs shared with 2 others so we would have an on target 360K income less costs, taxes etc.
There is no real risk but I do want to get out cleanly with no fallout as my business is based on goodwill. However I want to make sure that all options offered to us are explored in a full and informed way to ensure that the correct decisions are being made when this all happens.

One thing I have learned - lets see the offer on paper.
 
quarterfloun said:
My current salary is basic plus 10% of all fees (less VAT).
100% of the fees would be typically 120K less my costs shared with 2 others so we would have an on target 360K income less costs, taxes etc.
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I'm still unclear. You are saying that your current employer will hand over all income from his clients to you? If that's the case, how is he going to make money? Exactly what 'costs' will come out of your share? What happens when an assignment is shared between you & one of your colleagues?
 
Hi Rainy

I think the 100% option means that QF cuts all links with his old company and goes out on his own. This way he gets 100% of all the revenue. This sounds like his best option to me. As far as I can see the only thing holding him there is the BASIC pay. Take away that and why should he work for 40% of something when he could have it all?

aj
 
I'm still unclear. You are saying that your current employer will hand over all income from his clients to you? If that's the case, how is he going to make money?
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He is thinking of going out on his own and therefor working independantly of his current employer. Rather than changing his current situation to be self employed but getting commission only from his boss he hopes to set up his own business.
Just be careful your boss doesn't read this site and cop on though. You may want to edit the figures above.

Post crossed with Aj
 
Regardless of whether your employer wants to classify you as an employee or self employed you may want to have a look at this site.

http://www.welfare.ie/foi/scope_insofemp.html.

It's up to the Dept of Social & Family affairs to determine if you are an employee or self employed. In particular have a look at Appendix A - Code of Practice for determining Employment or Self-Employment status of Individuals.


Murt
 
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