Eirgrid almost ran short of electricity last week

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joe sod said:
Are we crazy, why are the media not reporting this very critical stuff that we are running out of generating capacity while shutting down perfectly good generating stations because of dogma rather than real life practicalities.
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Is it possible the reason it did not get much attention is because it is not as critical as you're suggesting?

The only article on the topic, written by a midlands correspondent, dedicates three quarters of that article to why the midlands based power stations should continue to operate and the impact on the area of shutting them down - does not seem that journalist is even too concerned about the possible network outage. Meanwhile Eirgrid, a very capable organisation that regularly consults for other countries on how to operate a modern grid/generation programme, are confident on moving from 30% renewable generation to 70% in the coming years.
 
Why our how do you think decarbonisation will make us significantly poorer?
 
losttheplot said:
I thought the wind turbines could be powered by gas in the event there was no wind.
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Each individual wind turbine? Obviously not.

There isn't a gas pipeline running up and down hills to wind turbines.


You may mean that gas-fired power can be ramped up if there is no wind? Yes, that happens.
 
joe sod said:
Very little media focus on this strangely but Eirgrid almost had a power outage last week due to insufficient power on the grid. ....
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The story I read said they there was outside possibility of an outage because they 2 or 3 "generators" (bit vague) out with technical issues and IF there was a problem with the interconnector AND other vague things then it MIGHT have caused an outage. They also mentioned we've had historical peaks in usage lately, and the article also mentioned the stations being decommissioned. It didn't make a direct link between those things but it was trying hard to make the connection without actually saying it. Then there was the parish pump whole save our local stations bit.

I wasn't sure if this was being spun for local politics, or spun to highlight resourcing issues for maintenance of infrastructure, or spun some obstuse political dig at the greens.

If anyone has a link that's less vague about what happened and it's happening maybe they could share it.

Maybe everyone's out panic buying candles. When a cheap led torch lasts weeks on a battery.
 
@AlbacoreA I have a good link here that explains, the article I linked above about Shannonbridge power station was yes focussed on the local issues , loss of jobs etc, however the point I was making is that this power station was operating and online when we experienced the peak demand and technical problems at Moneypoint. We are closing power stations at the very time we are experiencing record demand.

Eirgrid warns of record-breaking demand for electricity

Ireland's all-time record demand for electricity in Ireland was broken twice in the past week.
www.irishexaminer.com
 
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PGF2016 said:
And we have record supply also. Would be silly to keep polluting plants open for no reason.
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if you read the thread and the articles you would know that we had the peak demand when the wind was not blowing, only conventional power stations and interconnectors (also to conventional and nuclear generators in UK) were available. If there is no wind blowing, there is no wind power its very simple.
 
The solution to this problem will be found, but it will likely be focused on several fronts. Improved efficiency lowering demand, home generation and resale of power to the National Grid. Storing wind power energy for days when there's little or no wind, greater integration with other networks around Europe, and the development of new technologies like wave energy. This is a complex problem, but it is doable methinks.
 
The headline on this thread could vey well have been - 'After years of recognising the need to limit our (energy) consumption, Ireland experiences record demand for electricity'.

Despite all the efforts made to make electrical systems more efficient, this hasn't led to a reduction in usage. We set targets for renewable PENETRATION of electricity generation without recognising that this means nothing if we continue to increase our consumption.

We've known we need to stop mining turf and burning it for years, yet the closure of a couple of power stations which spent every day of their existence releasing stored carbon into the atmosphere is somehow presented as a bad idea, a rushed decision. Data centres are the new opportunity for Ireland without the acknowledgement that they are massive electricity consumers. We have a target of one million electric cars but no plan of how to power them. It's bonkers stuff really. And we're a country with a disparate population where everyone MUST have a car, an island state so air travel is a must and an agricultural economy so that is also a special case. We'll do nothing as long as we are only tinkering around the edges and making special cases for everything.
 

Seems like everyone's blaming renewables for the problem. But the problem was caused by conventional stations breaking down all at the same time.
 
I understand that if the wind doesn't blow then electricity is not generated. That is, indeed, very simple.

But that's not the point I made. You commented...
joe sod said:
We are closing power stations at the very time we are experiencing record demand.
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You only told half the story to suit your narrative. You neglected to mention that we have more supply than ever.

That there were a number of technical difficulties constraining supply around the same time is troubling but, I would guess, a freak occurrence. I wonder if that was unprecedented.
 
AlbacoreA said:
Seems like everyone's blaming renewables for the problem. But the problem was caused by conventional stations breaking down all at the same time.
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In Australia those clinging on to coal power keep bringing up the problems with solar not being reliable or available when most needed. But in reality the solar stations when paired with batteries produce a more reliable, cheaper and cleaner supply than coal due to reliability problems with the coal stations.

Can't remember the source unfortunately.
 
They didn't suddenly discover it's not windy all the time. Which seems to be the fairy tale being pushed here.
 
AlbacoreA said:
Seems like everyone's blaming renewables for the problem. But the problem was caused by conventional stations breaking down all at the same time.
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No everyone is saying we need more renewables, we need to stop releasing carbon etc etc, that's what the thrust of the comments are here. Then when it is pointed out that we almost ran out of power because of power station problems and no renewables being available at the critical time, people stick their fingers in their ears and don't want to hear the reality. A lot of aspects with renewables are aspirational like storage. Currently battery storage can only level out uneven power generation by wind turbines, no battery could could supply a large town for a day or a absorb the total generating capacity of a large wind farm . That is the limits of technology and physics and is star trek stuff.
 
One of the interesting ways to overcome the power storage problem was featured a few months ago on eco eye. Essentially, pump water uphill ( from a former quarry) then hydro power created when needed. The solution to the power problem will be multidirectional. The key will be to find ways to decarbonise rapidly. The way the pandemic focused minds and resources shows how we might tackle the problem. We know we have to.
 

The issue was the conventional power stations. If you ONLY had conventional power stations and a bunch of them failed. You'd have the same problem.

Most people on this thread have lived with conventional powered electricity their entire lives. Yet we are all familiar with power cuts and hunting for candles in the dark. If you are trying sell the old ways as far more robust and reliable, it won't wash.

This story has nothing to do with renewable energy.
 
For anyone interested in looking at actual data on generation & usage across the entire grid: http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/

It's hard to believe, reading a thread like this, that there are people who actually know what they're doing who are looking after security of supply.

Peak usage every day is driven by residential patterns. Nearly everybody in the country makes a cup of tea and cooks their dinner in a 2 hour window in the evening. Throw in a percentage having electric showers, and turning on the washing machine or dishwasher. There are lots of international studies available showing supply risk models based on the time people enter the home after work / study, etc, and impact in energy usage.

This has nothing to do with renewables. The issue had always existed, and is the very reason that Turlogh Hill exists. The pumped hydro facility there has been operational since 1974! I recall hearing that it used to get called up during the ad break in Glenroe back in the late '80's as a million households turned on their kettle to make a cup of tea.

To truly embrace renewable energy means having flexibility of demand. That means handing over control of when your immersion gets turned on, or your electric car gets charged to a central computer that does so when there's over supply during the night. Smart metering and variable pricing based on time will help. The problem isn't uniquely Irish, but is highlighted because we're a small island nation.
 
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