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Simeon
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Do many people agree with that self confessed coke head's analysis of the job that Charlton did?
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z106
Guest
what was his analysis?
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Simeon
Guest
As this is a family forum I won't vent. Suffice to say, that if youth was still on my side I'd love to meet him at the end of a Friday night!!!!!!! And give him a George 106 special. He merely mouthed the usual horse manure. The cameraman was keeping his (Dunphy's) right eye hidden by the nose. On the few occasions that Dunphy shifted his posterior you could see that someone got there before me. As usual he was either after climbing down from the high stool or after taking a close optical examination of the loo cistern. His new hampsteads make him look like a stroke victim when he orally emphasises. When will the media stop giving this neo Negative the time of day.
He merely mouthed the usual horse manure. The cameraman was keeping his (Dunphy's) right eye hidden by the nose. On the few occasions that Dunphy shifted his posterior you could see that someone got there before me. As usual he was either after climbing down from the high stool or after taking a close optical examination of the loo cistern. His new hampsteads make him look like a stroke victim when he orally emphasises. When will the media stop giving this neo Negative the time of day.
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Simeon
Guest
Broadly speaking .......... mostly everything that the manager did was wrong. Picking the wrong players and tactics. And presumably not listening to or answering questions fielded by Dunphy. And giving the impression that if things were done the way he recommended we would have won the World Cup. No need to go on as it is the same old mantra .........
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S.L.F
Guest
You wouldn't happen to have a link to this by any chance?
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Simeon
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No, but you may be able to retrieve it. Last night TG4 @ 8pm.
I seem to remember a certain manager called Brian Clough who went against the grain and upset a number of so called experts and arm chair pundits in his time with his unorthodox methods and that fella didnt do too badly at all did he. Jack was very much in the cloughy mould.
Dunphy's analysis sounds on the money to me. Charlton had perhaps the greatest Irish squad ever to work with. First thing he did was dump Liam Brady. A victory over England and one world cup quarter final (having beaten a poor Romania on penalties in the previous round) was hardly a great return.
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Simeon
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You generally measure success on results. Whether the opposition is god or bad. Remember form is often turned on it's head. Charlton ........... and McCarthy both inspired confidence. They got the squad to gel ........ passion ..... fire in their belly etc. They were good players but when that ingredient is mixed with passion you've got a very good squad. Do we really need the likes of Giles, Dunphy and Brady to explain the game to us? I know I don't and I think most fans just listen to them at half time, so that they don't have to put the kettle on. McCarthy found it hard to articulate ........ so he was an easy whipping boy for this angry and disfunctional jumped up rabble rouser.
. McCarthy found it hard to articulate ........ so he was an easy whipping boy for this angry and disfunctional jumped up rabble rouser.Jack Charlton wasn't the miracle manager everybody thinks he is. He inherited a very good squad of players from Eoin Hand. That Ireland team had its moments, almost qualifying for the '82 World Cup (missed out on goal difference). I think they were more entertaining to watch than Charlton's teams. (It was also much easier to get a ticket in them days )
Under Charlton Ireland played to their strengths which is fair enough and I'm not having a go at Charlton, he did a fantastic job but it wasn't the most exciting football I've ever seen
) Under Charlton Ireland played to their strengths which is fair enough and I'm not having a go at Charlton, he did a fantastic job but it wasn't the most exciting football I've ever seen
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Simeon
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Yes, I must admit I admire his stance. And the reverse psychological cue to some of the other well known 'personalities' living in that particular bubble. So Eamon, you are now becoming your own antithesis ......... ie. the Mother Theresa of Montrose
Are you serious?
Clough managed a couple of very ordinary clubs and brought them to league and european champions getting the most from some half-decent players who never did much anywhere else. He was the bets manager England ever produced.
Jack, by contrast, inherited the best players Ireland ever had at one time, got them to play route one and made it to the last eight of the world cup. IMHO, it was shameful waste of reources to play these players in that way.
I meant in personallity, and it is a matter of opinion if route one football is or was suited to certain footballing sides. Wimbledon had phenomenal success playing this kind of football.
Clough did not and once said " If god had wanted us to play football in the clouds he would have put grass up there"
I think Charlton did an excellent job but its only my opinion.
Clough did not and once said " If god had wanted us to play football in the clouds he would have put grass up there"
I think Charlton did an excellent job but its only my opinion.
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Guest116
Guest
Jack Charlton did very well, yeah we had a good crop of players but not world beaters. We got to a Euro championships and 2 world cup competitions, we beat England and Italy a long the way (great memories!)
We were unlucky in Euro 88 and in Italia 90 when we lost 1 nil to Italy.
Come on, they were the golden years of Irish soccer and we have Jack to thank. There is just no pleasing some people.
We were unlucky in Euro 88 and in Italia 90 when we lost 1 nil to Italy.
Come on, they were the golden years of Irish soccer and we have Jack to thank. There is just no pleasing some people.
I guess the issue is whether the team achieved all that it could.
Italia 90 + Euro 88 were cases where we did more than we ever did before - however I for one and many others believe we could of gone further.
The same in Korea in 2002.
Just because we reached a certain level which we never did before does does not mean it was a success - we actually underachieved becasue we had players that were not allowed play to their potential and also we got very lucky in draws etc that could have meant we went further than we did.
Some fantastic players were excluded from the team by Jack becasue they didn't fit the system.
And the good players that did play were curtailed by the style of play. We had one of the best strikers in the english leagues at the time John aldridge who only managed a handful of goals with the team becasue he sacrifced himself for the style of play.
USA 94 showed this approach was flawed when we limped out despite having a good enough squad with a good mix of youth and experience. No point having memories beating Italy when you then draw to an extremely poor norway team and then lose to an average mexico team meaning you play one of the best teams of the tournament in the next round.
History will paint it as a success but anyone who knows football knows thats not the full story.
Italia 90 + Euro 88 were cases where we did more than we ever did before - however I for one and many others believe we could of gone further.
The same in Korea in 2002.
Just because we reached a certain level which we never did before does does not mean it was a success - we actually underachieved becasue we had players that were not allowed play to their potential and also we got very lucky in draws etc that could have meant we went further than we did.
Some fantastic players were excluded from the team by Jack becasue they didn't fit the system.
And the good players that did play were curtailed by the style of play. We had one of the best strikers in the english leagues at the time John aldridge who only managed a handful of goals with the team becasue he sacrifced himself for the style of play.
USA 94 showed this approach was flawed when we limped out despite having a good enough squad with a good mix of youth and experience. No point having memories beating Italy when you then draw to an extremely poor norway team and then lose to an average mexico team meaning you play one of the best teams of the tournament in the next round.
History will paint it as a success but anyone who knows football knows thats not the full story.
Jack Charlton (Manager), Packie Bonner, Chris Morris, Steve Staunton, Mick McCarthy, Kevin Moran, Ronnie Whelan, Paul McGrath, Ray Houghton, John Aldridge, Tony Cascarino, Kevin Sheedy, David O`Leary, Andy Townsend, Chris Hughton, Bernie Slaven, John Sheridan, Niall Quinn, Frank Stapleton, David Kelly, John Byrne, Alan McLoughlin, Gerrry Peyton
I wouldnt consider many of the 1990 squad as world class superstars that particularly lit up the world stage.
While the nucleus of the side were excellent individual players ....Bonner McGrath Hughton Aldridge O Leary and Stapleton.
The backbone of the squad were merely competant first division club players Mc'Carthy Casscarino Sheedy Townsend Sheridan and Quinn
The numbers were made up of journeymen whose names are now barely recognised
Morriss, Bernie Slaven, David "Ned" Kelly, Byrne, Mcloughlin, and Peyton
Considering the talent at his disposal I personally believe as a team they over achieved. If you were to compare individuals to any other footballing power then I dont believe many of that squad could have been honestly rated higher in footballing ability than their corresponding opponent. All said its only my opinion and I wouldnt mind a few of those names on the teamsheet today.
I wouldnt consider many of the 1990 squad as world class superstars that particularly lit up the world stage.
While the nucleus of the side were excellent individual players ....Bonner McGrath Hughton Aldridge O Leary and Stapleton.
The backbone of the squad were merely competant first division club players Mc'Carthy Casscarino Sheedy Townsend Sheridan and Quinn
The numbers were made up of journeymen whose names are now barely recognised
Morriss, Bernie Slaven, David "Ned" Kelly, Byrne, Mcloughlin, and Peyton
Considering the talent at his disposal I personally believe as a team they over achieved. If you were to compare individuals to any other footballing power then I dont believe many of that squad could have been honestly rated higher in footballing ability than their corresponding opponent. All said its only my opinion and I wouldnt mind a few of those names on the teamsheet today.