Does our education system reward working harder rather than smarter ??

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zardebt

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Does our education system reward working harder rather than smarter ??
.....
Should there be a system of open book exams where the students interpretation of the
material is more examined rather than their ability to memorise it ?

- More emphasis given to projects rather than exams .......??
 
I'm an edjumicator by profession and, on the basis of my own experience of secondary and third-level education, I'd say yes. Without a doubt. Teachers in all walks of life constantly see true talent go unacknowledged and unrewarded while 'steady-eddie', plodding dullards rise and rise through the system - not effortlessly, at least! '10% inspiration and 90% perspiration', as I believe the saying goes...:(

But that's life, as stuart says!
 
And why shouldn't it? Why shouldn't the guy who works his socks off get more 'reward' than the guy who thinks he can just sail through and not apply the brains he has been blessed with?
 
DrMoriarty said:
I'm an edjumicator by profession and, on the basis of my own experience of secondary and third-level education, I'd say yes. Without a doubt. Teachers in all walks of life constantly see true talent go unacknowledged and unrewarded while 'steady-eddie', plodding dullards rise and rise through the system - not effortlessly, at least! '10% inspiration and 90% perspiration', as I believe the saying goes...:(

But that's life, as stuart says!
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How is "true talent" measured objectively? If somebody is "truly talented" then surely, in most cases, studying and passing examinations should be no great problem for them? I'm not saying that our examination systems and educational curricula are perfect but what would objectors propose as a better alternative?
 
the issue I have is that our education system teach us how to know rather than interrupt:confused:
 
Don't get me wrong - the ability to study and pass examinations is one particular talent, and an indispensable one if you want accreditation/qualifications. It just doesn't necessarily follow that the most 'successful' students go on to be the best doctors/lawyers/teachers/engineers/salespersons/whatever...

I'd still say that most teachers would prefer to teach the bright-but-lazy sort than the average-but-hardworking 'plodders'. But that's not to say that one deserves their exam success any more or less than the other!

examcheat9go.jpg
 
zardebt said:
the issue I have is that our education system teach us how to know rather than interrupt:confused:
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I don't understand your point. From my own experience I have to say that, in hindsight, my own educational experience balanced the need to teach basic tenets of subjects in a structured manner with the provision of opportunities to question things and express independent opinions fairly well. And this was what I reckon would be a fairly typical Irish education - primary National School in the 70s and secondary Christian Brother school in the 80s with the usual mix of teachers from the talented and highly motivated to those that were, well, less effective. I'm not saying that it was perfect (and many of us were far from ideal students) but overall I couldn't fault it majorly (even if the younger me would have dissented vociferously from this view! :)). Looking back and at how things are now I still don't see any effective alternative to examinations as a means of objectively measuring progress. Perhaps the problems is more that some people assume that examination success is also a measure of overall intelligence or "success". And as for all that "points race" rubbish and pushing kids into third level or on certain career paths - don't even get me started. :mad:
 
Well for the most part my knowledge is coming from a science background ...
At the moment the grads that come out of college seem to know the theory but can't put it into practice .....

I remember asking a student in maths once to give me one practical use of topology her ans was ironing ;);)

Most of the exam is based around define .. describe ... and it only in the very last bit of the exam the interpetation of the knowledge questioned .
-you can get a B1 in Physics just by learning off previous ans ...hmmmmm

Are we not better off using either open book exams and projects to judge the ability of a student!!!

-Maybe then when we are in the work place we may be better equipped with understanding the problem ... and have better problem solving skills !

Hay ... after all if it was project based the student may

1. Learn more
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Zardette
 
zardebt said:
I remember asking a student in maths once to give me one practical use of topology her ans was ironing ;);)
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If you asked me the same question I would not be able to answer it meaningfully either without some additional contextual information. Maybe you didn't communicate the question clearly to her?

Most of the exam is based around define .. describe ... and it only the very last bit of the exam is the interpetation of the knowledge really questioned .
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What exam? Different subjects lend themselves to different modes of examination. Scientific subjects generally have clearly correct or incorrect answers. Others may not and include questions prefixed by "discuss" for example.

-you can get a B1 in Physics just by learning off previous ans ...hmmmmm
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Can you expand on this and maybe give an example or two?

Are we not better off using either open book exams and projects to judge the ability of a student!!!
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Purely reference rather than explanatory material should probably be allowed alright - in fact the allowance of calculators and logarithmic tables would be an example. There may be others even as things stand.

-Maybe then when we are in the work place we may be better equipped with understanding the problem ... and have better problem solving skills !
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I think that this is a wider issue altogether. The main focus of our educational system is to teach the basic fundamentals of various subjects. I would agree that some form of separate teaching of stuff like time/project management, independent/lateral thinking approaches to problem solving, individual and team based problem solving etc. should be carried out (if it's not already?). But I don't think that this necessarily obviates the need to assess progress in other subjects by way of examinations as is currently done.

Hay ... after all if it was project based the student may

1. Learn more
2 Enjoy it more
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I thought that some secondary level examinations already had a practical/project component? For example, art? Again there may be others.
 
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ClubMan said:
If you asked me the same question I would not be able to answer it meaningfully either without some additional contextual information. Maybe you didn't communicate the question clearly to her? [/font][font=&quot].
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I think she was making the point that she didn't really see the relevance of topology

(Topology is the mathematical study of the properties that are preserved through deformations, twistings, and stretchings of objects. Tearing, however, is not allowed - bit like ironing wouldn't you say).:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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ClubMan said:
[/font][font=&quot] What exam? Different subjects lend themselves to different modes of examination. Scientific subjects generally have clearly correct or incorrect answers. Others may not and include questions prefixed by "discuss" for example.[/font][font=&quot]
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yes you are spot on but do we really need to test how much a student can remember complex maths formulas.....can we examine how to apply them !![/font][font=&quot][/font]
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ClubMan said:
[/font][font=&quot] [/font][font=&quot] Can you expand on this and maybe give an example or two?[/font][font=&quot]
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Q1(a) - Define - something that you can commit to memory without understanding

(b) Describe an experiment - same again

(c) Apply the formula - remember the formula your half way there

(d) Apply it your in trouble --- but you have your B1.

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ClubMan said:
[/font][font=&quot][/font][font=&quot] Purely reference rather than explanatory material should probably be allowed alright - in fact the allowance of calculators and logarithmic tables would be an example. There may be others even as things stand.[/font][font=&quot].
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Not enough you need to remember thing like Doppler Shift in its mathematical form ....... but you not required to derive it .... just one of many

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ClubMan said:
[/font][font=&quot][/font][font=&quot][/font][font=&quot] I think that this is a wider issue altogether. The main focus of our educational system is to teach the basic fundamentals of various subjects. I would agree that some form of separate teaching of stuff like time/project management, independent/lateral thinking approaches to problem solving, individual and team based problem solving etc. should be carried out (if it's not already?). But I don't think that this necessarily obviates the need to assess progress in other subjects by way of examinations as is currently done.[/font][font=&quot].
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no - I don't think this its a separate form of teaching. It is the sort of independent/lateral thinking that you need to have to do a good project..... !!

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ClubMan said:
[/font][font=&quot][/font][font=&quot] I thought that some secondary level examinations already had a practical/project component? For example, art? Again there may be others.
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Not really ... the experiments are as old as Einstein and as exciting as a
Maire Curie on a night out ..:eek:....;)

Thnx Clubman for you interest ...... and you are spot on when you say that some people assume that examination success is also a measure of overall intelligence or "success".:(;)[/font]
 
I understand the point your making Zardebt , but

At the moment the grads that come out of college seem to know the theory but can't put it into practice .....
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I think you'll find that even when you came out of collge you were the same

I worked in accountants offices for over 10 years and in 3 different countries Every time I talk any old colleagues who are still there and when I was there this point was raised

There is no way that trainee accountants have been getting worse for the past 10 years, it just gets more frustrating seeing it

As for an alternative for exams, I don't see one
I know some people no matter how intelligent and well prepared are just not good at exams
BTW, I loved them, the thought of them never bothered me in the slightest

Problem solving skills and project management are not necessarily work place events for everyone
Usually common sense will get most people through these aspects
(backed up with experience)

stuart@buyingtolet.ie
 
I remember a similar debate to this one in the Lit and Deb soc in UCG years ago:
'That university dulls diamonds and polishes stones'
Unless class sizes and college lectures are smaller then that is what will happen, as all must move at the pace of the middle.
Personally I feel cheated. All this talk about going to college and books and study; nobody told me I should have become a carpenter! ;)
 
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