Does everyone own a car?

2 kids one car. The kids walk to school, one of us works at home and the other takes bus and luas across Dublin to work (public transport is faster and cheaper in our case). The car is mostly used for food shopping, bringing kids to sports activities all over the Dublin area, and for weekend visits to the country.

Is the car essential? Well the trips to the country would be more difficult and we'd never be able to do anything when we're there without relying on others... In Dublin, less essential. We live close to city centre and often walk into town (and home again). We are well served by public transport.

I agree that the use of cars to ferry kids to school is a problem, and a very significant contributor to road congestion, as can be seen in most areas when the roads suddenly become much more manageable during school breaks. People use all kinds of reasons to justify this: no public transport, too dangerous to walk/cycle etc. Part of the problem also is parents insisting on sending their kids to private schools far from home rather than use the supposedly inferior public school nearby. And part of it is snobbery. I know several people who think that buses are only for immigrants. Another friend has returned to the country and is getting grief from family members for planning to buy a used rather than a new car ("the shame of it, the neighbours seeing them driving up with their 98 reg plates" etc etc).

The more we use cars, the less efficient public transport becomes. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Many people insist that the public transport system is "not available" where they live, but I am always suspicious of such claims from people who live in Dublin. Sure, there is room for improvement in public transport, but we have to demonstrate a willingness - an insistence even - on using it. Incentives could and should be provided for this. Many companies operate the revenue approved scheme whereby your buy a bus/train/luas pass from pre-tax income, but not everyone knows about this.

Many others, unfortunately, don't care.
 
Purple said:
They are totally unnecessary and very dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists.
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A badly driven nissan micra is a lot more dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists than a well driven suv. True SUVs aren't necessary but I would feel a lot safer driving with my kids in the back of a suv than in the micra.
 

Hi ClubMan,
Is it more difficult now to manage without a car now with ClubBaby or no difference at all?
cas.
 
I agree with Miss Ribena's sentiments ... being from the same part of Ireland the infrastructure is crap. A neighbour of mine has a car which her husband uses to get to and from work. They have 3 children who are dropped to school and collected by other people ... she only uses the car at the weekends or for late night shopping.
I could not live like that ... being reliant on the kindness of strangers to ferry my children around. That's the crux of the issue isn't though ... when you have children you have to go places ... sometimes I think they have a better social life than adults do. I try to walk places when I can, but without footpaths and lots of trucks/lorries this is a risky proposition. If I lived in Dublin I would not have a car.
 
demoivre said:
A badly driven nissan micra is a lot more dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists than a well driven suv. True SUVs aren't necessary but I would feel a lot safer driving with my kids in the back of a suv than in the micra.
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A tank would be safer than an SUV. Does that make it OK for us all to drive tanks?
As cars get bigger people with smaller cars tend to feel less safe and so buy bigger as well. It becomes like an arms race. We’ll all be driving Hummers in 10 years at that rate.
A good size family saloon car with proper crumple zones is just as safe as an SUV in almost all circumstances.
 
demoivre said:
.. I would feel a lot safer driving with my kids in the back of a suv than in the micra.
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and that is the fallacy of the SUV.

A feeling of safety is weaker than an awareness of safety. Regardless of the car you drive, you need to maintain a level of vigilence. If in a SUV one is, IMHO, less vigilant cos you are ceteris paribus indifferent to a prang cos you'll come out of it better. Especially if you have bull bars.

My opinion is informed by a conversation with an acquaintance who had just bought his wife a Mercedes SUV, and I believe his opinion is not unique.
 
It's getting like North America here for car usage and the associated attitudes. Two funny stories:

A colleague who was on a work trip to somewhere outside Boston, decided to walk the route from his hotel to the offices where he was working and was eventually pulled over by the cops for acting suspiciously. He was walking on a sidewalk and not on a freeway/motorway or anything like that.

Another friend was somewhere in Canada on a work trip and was walking to work through some peripheral urban area when a motorist pulled up beside him, rolled his window down and shouted at him "Get a car LOSER!!!".
 
casiopea said:
Hi ClubMan,
Is it more difficult now to manage without a car now with ClubBaby or no difference at all?
cas.
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No difference so far. We walk or take public transport mostly. We get the odd lift from family/friends.
 
ClubMan said:
Another friend was somewhere in Canada on a work trip and was walking to work through some peripheral urban area when a motorist pulled up beside him, rolled his window down and shouted at him "Get a car LOSER!!!".
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I only learned to drive and passed my test by my late twenties, which is unusual for Irish males in the main. I always remember a college buddy, who lived close to the college (with plenty of public transport available) who always drove his mother's car to college. He would say to me (who relied on public transport) "only losers take the bus!".
 

My point is that your assertion that SUVs are " very dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists" generally is simply not true ie they are no more dangerous than any other vehicle on the road - it depends on who is behind the wheel.

"A good size family saloon car with proper crumple zones is just as safe as an SUV in almost all circumstances"

I don't accept that .


TarfHead I dont just think that I am safer in a suv , I believe that I am - where is the fallacy in feeling safer crashing in a VW Tourareg than a nissan micra . I agree with you though that's it's crucial to be vigelent whatever you drive though I can't believe that anyone out on the road is " indifferent " to a prang just because of what they drive .
 
demoivre said:
.. I believe that I am - where is the fallacy in feeling safer crashing in a VW Tourareg than a nissan micra
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Well, if I had a choice in the matter, I would 'rather' be pranged by a Micra than a SUV.
 
But that's at the core of the issue, you don't have a choice in what hits you and for that reason I hope I never have to drive something a small as a micra.
There are already bigger things on the road than SUV's and given that articulated lorry drivers seem to think its compulsory to use have a mobile phone in one hand all the time I'm more worried about them. Have you ever been on a bike and felt the suction in towards the wheels when one of these or a bus goes by at speed.
Its a total fallacy to suggest that SUV drivers are driving around dangerously because they feel that if they have an accident they'll be fine. The problem with SUV's is that even for careful drivers the braking distance isn't good enough in an emergency and that's why I wouldn't have one.
Hopefully its just a passing fad anyway as I believe the car industry feels the way forward is "cross-over" cars like the nissan murano that drive more like cars while still providing decent space.
 
My point is that your assertion that SUVs are " very dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists" generally is simply not true ie they are no more dangerous than any other vehicle on the road - it depends on who is behind the wheel.
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Euronacp would disagree with you on that point. So would anyone who thinks about affect of an impact on a child of a saloon car in comparison to a chest height front grill with Bull-Bars.
By your logic getting hit by a bus is no more dangerous than being hit by a scooter...
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=9&id2=145
 

A couple of points.
Euronap make no reference to the importance of who is behind the wheel - the no. of road deaths/injuries is more influenced by driver behaviour/ speed than vehicle type - as I said earlier a badly driven nissan micra is a lot more dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists than a well driven suv .

Euronap crash test are carried out at 40mph against a deformable barrier ie single car tests. That is not the same as crashing a Tourareg in to a micra head on , both of which are travelling at 40 mph. ( I know which one I'd want to be in !)
 
demoivre,
Do you accept that hitting a child head on with a 4X4 at 40kmph will, in most circumstances, do more damage to the child than hitting them with a Citroen C4?
Taking your Tourareg and Micra example, the logical extension of this is that everyone ends up in a Tourareg and so in order to feel safe one has to buy a bigger SUV and so on ad infinitum. Can you see why this is a zore end game?
 
Do you accept that hitting a child head on with a 4X4 at 40kmph will, in most circumstances, do more damage to the child than hitting them with a Citroen C4?

Yes - equally I think it's more likely that an irresponsibly driven c4 will knock down a child than a responsibly driven 4x4 - driver behaviour is a more pertinent point imo than nature of the vehicle being driven.

Taking your Tourareg and Micra example, the logical extension of this is that everyone ends up in a Tourareg and so in order to feel safe one has to buy a bigger SUV and so on ad infinitum. Can you see why this is a zore end game?

I don't think you are making a realistic point here at all. Everyone won't end up in a tourareg or similar because many people out there simply can't afford them and that has always been the way and will always be the way.
 
Carpenter said:
He would say to me (who relied on public transport) "only losers take the bus!".
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That was a great song by Cathal Couglin (Fatima Mansions/Micro Disney)..
I wonder did he realise!!
 
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