Do I have to amalgamate my pension if I rejoin public sector

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partnership

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I took redundancy from the hse and my pension is preserved. If I was to be employed by another public sector body such as local authority how would this work? I would prefer to keep preserved pension as is and start in new scheme if possible. Would this be allowed?
 
partnership said:
I took redundancy from the hse and my pension is preserved. If I was to be employed by another public sector body such as local authority how would this work? I would prefer to keep preserved pension as is and start in new scheme if possible. Would this be allowed?
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If you have been more than 6 months out of the public service, you will have to join the new single scheme if you were to rejoin which is a different scheme anyway, so as far as I know they would be separate. I don't believe there is an option to merge service from both different schemes but I could be wrong.
 
partnership said:
I took redundancy from the hse and my pension is preserved. If I was to be employed by another public sector body such as local authority how would this work? I would prefer to keep preserved pension as is and start in new scheme if possible. Would this be allowed?
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Depending on what scheme you took redundancy under there may be restrictions on your re-employment in the public service.

Also, if you are successfully re-employed you will probably be subject to pension abatement whenever your preserved pension becomes payable (60?). Abatement means that you cannot earn more from your new salary and your previous pension combined than the salary you would have had if you were still employed in your former position.

You will (or should be) required to sign a declaration at re-employment in respect of any previous public service employments/pensions.

You can google "pension abatement". Also, see here : https://www.dcu.ie/sites/default/files/hr/pdfs/appointment_restrictions.pdf .
 
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Early Riser said:
Depending on what scheme you took redundancy under there may be restrictions on your re-employment in the public service.

Also, if you are successfully re-employed you will probably be subject to pension abatement whenever your preserved pension becomes payable (60?). Abatement means that you cannot earn more from yor new salary and your previous pension combined than the salary you would have had if you were still employed in your former position.
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Slightly OT but I wonder how constitutional this is. It seems both an infringement of a property right and unequal treatment.

Person A decides to enjoy the retired life at 60, while person B wants to keep on working. Why should person B's accumulated pension rights be reduced but not person A's?
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Slightly OT but I wonder how constitutional this is. It seems both an infringement of a property right and unequal treatment.

Person A decides to enjoy the retired life at 60, while person B wants to keep on working. Why should person B's accumulated pension rights be reduced but not person A's?
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I have no idea on the constitutional matter - as far as I know it has never been challenged. SIPTU did make an issue of it in relation to nurses working beyond 65 ( between occ pension age and state pension age) but I don't know how far it went (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/hea...-retirement-age-could-face-pay-cuts-1.3396785). I seem to remember the teachers unions raising it also in respect of retired teachers returning to the classroom. It is certainly still a stated condition in general.

I suppose the point could be made that it doesn't prevent people working - it is just a condition of public sector employment.
 
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As I understand the abatement would only be if you are working in public sector. If you were working and getting pension it will be taxed. Hoping not to work past 60 if I can afford it. Just need to work til then and maybe build up some stamps for state pension.
 
partnership said:
As I understand the abatement would only be if you are working in public sector. If you were working and getting pension it will be taxed. Hoping not to work past 60 if I can afford it. Just need to work til then and maybe build up some stamps for state pension.
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I take it your preserved pension is payable at 60? If you will not be working beyond 60 in your new position then abatement will not be an issue. However, beyond this it may be. You said your prospective new position is in a local authority - that is a public service position, as far as I know. See if your prospective employer is listed here (I don't know of this is exhaustive): https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/list-of-single-scheme-public-service-bodies/ .
 
Early Riser said:
I suppose the point could be made that it doesn't prevent people working - it is just a condition of public sector employment.
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I guess you're right. There is already precedent for unequal pay for equal work with the post-2010 entrants.

Ditto for pension accumulation for Single Scheme participants.
 
I have a fairly ok preserved pension and it is likely I would be a lower grade if I even get a job so need to make sure of my facts.
 
I can see this has been discussed but I am still confused or at best struggling to believe it as it could spell bad news for me.
I worked in semi state for 15 years and have a preserved DB pension to draw down this year at 60.
I worked in the private sector for a few years and then took up a job in 2010 in the public service. My salary in my current job where I plan to work to 65 is 35,000 p.a. almost exactly the same as the final salary I had in the semi state job 15 years ago. When my DB pension falls due which is later this year and will be worth approx 7,000 p.a. Does this mean I would not get any of the 7,000 pa from my pension until I am 65? Seems rather unfair if that is the case as under the DB scheme those years are not counted the same for the state contributory pension. I do understand that I would be pay tax on the 7,000 but i thought I would have that together with my current salary until I am 65/66. Have I got this all wrong?
 
Another point to add to the above. My contract on the DB pension job requires me to draw down at 60. When I started work there that was the age people retired at. It can not be deferred beyond 60. If I do draw it down at 60 and I loose the annual pension amount due to abatement and my current job. Would that also mean that I could not draw down the lump sum?
 
If the pension that I was told I could not defer now has to be left will in accrue more in value - that would be something at least
 
kateLaila said:
I worked in semi state for 15 years and have a preserved DB pension to draw down this year at 60.
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Before considering any of the other details you need to be sure that this was in fact a public sector pension scheme. I could be wrong but I believe that the semi-states have their own pension schemes, which are not public sector schemes, as such. That is for the commercial semi-state sector at least.

If it was not a public sector scheme then considerations around abatement are unlikely to be an issue.
 
I think you are ok. This is in reply to a Dail question in 2019:

"This provides that where a retired public servant who is in receipt of a public service retirement pension resumes employment anywhere in the public service on or after 1 November 2012, their pension is liable to abatement, that is, cessation or reduction as appropriate. The measure applies across the public service.............. However, it does not apply in relation to employment with the commercial semi-State bodies or where public service pensioners are employed outside the public service..........
I should also state that a public service pensioner already in public service employment immediately before 1 November 2012 is not affected by the change while he or she remains in that post/position. However, if their employment status changes after that date, for example, where they secure a new post through promotion with their current public service employer or where they move to a different post or public service body, their pension is subject to abatement in accordance with the legislation. "

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-05-21/105/
 
Oh thank you Early Riser. I think I will be OK then. With all the different pension schemes and the cross over between private, public and semi-state it is indeed confusing. Thanks again.
 
This is topical for me as I am a post 1995, pre 2004 public servant who is thinking of leaving his position. I could see myself re-entering the public service at some time in the future (very likely into a lower paid position) which would put me into the single pension scheme.

From
Public servants with preserved pension and lump sum benefits in pre-existing public service pension schemes will continue to have access to those benefits on reaching the prescribed ages in those schemes. Accordingly, it is expected that these pension entitlements from pre-existing public service schemes will not be transferable into the Single Scheme.
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How does this work in practice? Let's say I resign from my current job, take a break for a few years, get another job and resign from that at age 60. I get to draw down my preserved pension from my first job immediately and get an additional pension from my second job at age 68 or whatever the single scheme pension age is?
 
The Ghoul said:
How does this work in practice? Let's say I resign from my current job, take a break for a few years, get another job and resign from that at age 60. I get to draw down my preserved pension from my first job immediately and get an additional pension from my second job at age 68 or whatever the single scheme pension age is?
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I am not sure exactly what you are planning. If you resign from your current job for a few years and are then re-employed in the public service you will be joining the Single Scheme.

At 60 you become eligible for your present public service occupational pension (assuming you opt for a preserved pension rather than CNER). You do not have to resign from your second public service job to get this, ie, you can stay working and stay in the Single Scheme. However, you will be subject to Pension Abatement. So, the combined amount of your pension and your new salary cannot exceed the salary currently payable for the position you resigned from. If it does your pension will be reduced accordingly. At 67/68 you would also get your Single Scheme pension and the State Pension (at whatever rate your PRSI record makes you eligible). Any abatement that had been applied to your original pension would cease.

If you are also resigning from your second job at 60 then there is no issue with Abatement. If you are not at that point in any insurable employment, or eligible for a Social Welfare payment, you would be able to apply for whatever Supplementary Pension is applicable for your Occ Pension (the pension from your present pre-2004 post). At 67/68 you would apply for your Single Scheme and State Pensions (whether full or partial State Pension, as per PRSI record). Any Supplementary Pension would cease.

Just as a side issue. I believe that Abatement was temporarily suspended for people re-joining the HSE frontline during the Covid emergency. I don't know if it is still in place.
 
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@The Ghoul,

By resigning from your current post and rejoining the public service later as a member of the Single Scheme, you are putting yourself at a considerable disadvantage from a retirement and pension viewpoint. You should first strongly consider applying for a Career Break. Then, if and when you do return, it will be under the terms and conditions of your current pension scheme. Maybe you could look for a transfer if you should find your current role unappealing? Alternatively it may be possible to return on a job-sharing or part-time basis.
 
Thanks Early Riser, I will probably be going on carer's leave soon and when that finishes I may not be in a position to return to work.

Career breaks or anything else that is at the discretion of the employer seem to be non runners in my workplace.

For some reason, I thought that single scheme service would be amalgamated with previous (final salary) service and a calculation done which would have a negative effect on the final salary service. It's good that this apparently isn't the case.

You are correct of course that it is preferable to stay in a final salary scheme and keep accruing service in it as once you leave for more than 26 weeks, that is that in terms of accruing more final salary service.

Another scenario that I've been thinking about is - someone in a final salary scheme leaves for a lower paid job, what is the effect on their pension and lump sum. From what I've heard, final salary pension calculations are based on the "average of the best 3 years in the final 10 years of service". If this is the case, taking a lower paid job might or might not affect the calculation. If someone intended to take a lower paid job it might be preferable to preserve the benefit from their previous job, wait 26 weeks and be in the single scheme for the new job? I haven't given that much thought to it though.
 
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