Do Credit Union staff win 30% of the cars in prize draws?

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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My understanding was that staff / directors have won a prize in at last 1 draw in the period examined, in 30% of the Credit Unions, as opposed to winning 30% of the total prizes.
 
RedOnion said:
That doesn't make such a sensational headline though!
Click to expand...
The indo missed a more sensationalist headline - over 35% of cu draws that staff could enter, staff won prizes!

15% of the cu's did not permit staff enter, so the 30% came from the 85% that did.

Even if it was over a 2 1/2 year period, its still in Fr. Ted category .
 
Has anyone a link to the Central Bank's actual findings? I can't find it on their website.

This is what the Irish Times says

Directors and staff won prizes in 30% of credit union draws

This is very different from what Red Onion's understanding:

My understanding was that staff / directors have won a prize in at last 1 draw in the period examined, in 30% of the Credit Unions, as opposed to winning 30% of the total prizes.
 
Quote:
"
In approximately 30% of credit unions who operate prize draws staff and directors have won prizes over
the period October 2014 to March 2017."

The question they were asked:
Have any staff have won prizes from 1st October 2014 to 31 March 2017?
Have any directors have won prizes from 1st October 2014 to 31 March 2017?

Either I've completely misread this (possible!), Or thus has been very badly reported across the board.
 
I attach the letter

o 128 (46%) of credit unions operate a prize draw

o Approximately 446,000 members participate in prize draws, an increase of circa 46,000 from 2015 to 2017


 Member Participation
o In several credit unions there was poor record keeping of members’ written authorisation and withdrawal f orms.
o Circa 85% of credit unions allow staff and directors to participate in prize draws.
o In approximately 30% of credit unions who operate prize draws, staff and directors have won prizes over the period
October 2014 to March 2017.


This is very clear to me and I agree with Red Onion.

128 credit unions had draws over the period
Assuming they had monthly draws, that would be 128 x 30 months or 3,840 draws.
Staff and directors in 30% of 128 credit unions won prizes - so that would be 38 prizes in total (assuming only one win in each credit union.)

So the right summary would be c.1% of prizes were won by credit union staff and directors?

All the draws are probably not monthly.
In some Credit Unions, the staff probably won more than once.
In 15% of Credit Unions, the staff were not allowed enter.

But 1% is closer to the 30% reported in the Irish Times and elsewhere.

Brendan
 

Attachments

  • 2018 Thematic Review of Prize Draws - Industry letter.pdf
    375.7 KB · Views: 261
I was thinking of a draw with just one prize - a car.

But many of the draws probably have a few prizes.

Say, the average number of prizes per draw is 5, then the staff won only 0.2% of prizes.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I attach the letter

o 128 (46%) of credit unions operate a prize draw

o Approximately 446,000 members participate in prize draws, an increase of circa 46,000 from 2015 to 2017


 Member Participation
o In several credit unions there was poor record keeping of members’ written authorisation and withdrawal f orms.
o Circa 85% of credit unions allow staff and directors to participate in prize draws.
o In approximately 30% of credit unions who operate prize draws, staff and directors have won prizes over the period
October 2014 to March 2017.


This is very clear to me and I agree with Red Onion.

128 credit unions had draws over the period
Assuming they had monthly draws, that would be 128 x 30 months or 3,840 draws.
Staff and directors in 30% of 128 credit unions won prizes - so that would be 38 prizes in total (assuming only one win in each credit union.)

So the right summary would be c.1% of prizes were won by credit union staff and directors?

All the draws are probably not monthly.
In some Credit Unions, the staff probably won more than once.
In 15% of Credit Unions, the staff were not allowed enter.

But 1% is closer to the 30% reported in the Irish Times and elsewhere.

Brendan
Click to expand...

This would be a better interpretation of the report. In fact, some credit union prize draws have many prizes each month (I know of one CU that has up to 20 each month) so the percentage of prizes won by staff is likely to be minuscule.
 
[broken link removed] gave out 41 prizes in March 2017. They have quarterly draws. So that averages out at 10 prizes a month.

It would be astonishing if staff and directors did not occasionally win a prize.

If the other Credit Unions are like this, the the staff and directors should win at least one prize in almost every credit union.

Brendan
 
And here is St Raphael's

Great Prize Draws
Every year we give away prizes worth over € 1.3 million to our members.

It costs just €6.50 per month. Prizes include luxury cars and cash. There are special Summer and Christmas Monster Draws plus 12 monthly draws. We offer members the chance to win 67 cars, Cash, & All-Ireland Football & Hurling Tickets. Once you are registered for the Car Draw, you are automatically entered into ALL our Draws here @ St. Raphael’s!
 
The draw structure from the Health Services Staffs CU

All members are welcome to participate in our monthly prize draw which currently costs €2.75 every month.
Each month we give away one prize of €20,000 and 10 prizes of €1,000!
Every January we run a prize draw for all entrants of the prize draw where we could pay your bills for the year to the value of €12,000.
Every Christmas we give away 500 prizes of €500.

https://www.hsscu.ie/prize-draw/
 
Without the statistics in relation to the number of draws, number of prizes and number of director/staff entrants it's impossible to conclude there is anything untoward about this. In fact, given the probabilities that can be deduced from some of the prize draw details published by credit unions online it's a wonder that it's not closer to 100% of the 128 credit union rather than 30% given that credit unions all have boards of between 7 and 11 people with the numbers of staff anywhere up to 50 or 60 in the very large credit unions.
 
Thanks Gipimann

That is 633 prizes in total per year - it's about 1,800 prizes over the period of the survey.

It would be astonishing if a director or staff member did not win at least one prize during that period.

Brendan
 
Why are staff members and directors even part of the draw? Every competition run by companies involving the public will nearly always exclude staff and their families as part of the terms and conditions. Would strike me as basic governance. Not saying there is anything wrong but why risk even the perception of something untoward. It's pretty amateur stuff by the credit unions. It's unfortunate but if you want to work there, you can't enter the draw. Join a different credit union as a customer and enter that draw if you want.
 
Lads, I need a new car. I hope you will all join me as I setup a new AAM Credit Union to assist in this worthy goal.
 
I suggested to the Central Bank that they should clarify their report and they sent me this response:

"Thanks for your email. We are in touch with some media outlets to ensure there is an accurate understanding of the report's findings"

Brendan
 
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