Direct Debit Question

C

coolatjc

Registered User
Messages
48
I previously owned 2 cars both insured with Allianz.

Both cars each have their own unique Direct Debit. When I say unique i mean i received instructions from Allianz detailing unique reference numbers in relation to my paymeny instructions.

I bank with PermTSB.

My wife had myself decided it was time to get rid of one car and I cancelled the DD for the car we sold online with open24.

I also wrote to Allianz informing them of the same.

This morning i check the bank and I discover the DD I cancelled was allowed to go through.

I contacted my bank to ask them what was going on.

My bank informed me that even though I cancelled my DD, Allianz have the right to use my other Direct Debit to withdraw the monies for the DD I canceled!

I explained that the DD I cancelled had a unique reference number that had been used for the DD taken out this morning.

The bank basically said that they do not go by that reference number so they dont know what amounts and when these amounts come out of my account!

To cut a long story short permTSB dont care if you cancel a Direct Debit, because if you have another DD with the same company these are allowed to be abused to take whatever payments they wish without the authorsation of the account holder!

Surely this cant be right?

I even tried the excuse, you cant take out 2 payments of a monthly DD.

Didnt work.

You cant use a reference number for a seperate DD from a DD i canceled.

Didnt work.

I have to be informed within 14 days of any changes to a DD.

Thats between you and Allianz was the answer.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Allianz are also claiming they didnt receive my cancelation, but if i fax a copy in they will cancel it for next month!


thanks for any help
 
It seems the cause of the problem is that Allianz did not get your instruction to cancel the direct debit (at least, that's their excuse and they're sticking to it). Fax them another letter directing them to stop the direct debit, as they suggested, but phone first to make sure that someone is standing by the fax machine, and ask them to call you as soon as they receive it. (And if you don't hear from them within a reasonable time, call them again). I would also send a copy of your original letter (if you kept one) and ask for a refund of the payment they took.

Allianz seem to have a problem with their written correspondence, by the way - I had delays in setting up pet insurance with them as they said they never received my direct debit instruction.
 
From the Irish Payment Services Organisation's Guide to Direct Debits, :

Cancelling and amending a direct debit instruction.

[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]The payer can cancel or amend the Direct Debit instruction at any time by informing their Bank in writing. They should also inform the Originator. All correspondence should be retained. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]The payer’s Bank will then inform the Originator of the cancellation or amendment. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]If the instruction is cancelled no further collections are permitted.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]If it is established that an unauthorised Direct Debit was charged to a Payer’s account the Payer is guaranteed a prompt refund by their Bank. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]It also mentions in another section that the originator (i.e. your insurance company) must give 14 days notice of any change in amounts or collection dates. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]I'd get onto the bank and get them to stand over the cancellation points and get onto Allianz and get them to stand over the 14 days notice point. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Verdana]Allianz might give you a line about the the amounts varying because it's a direct debit, but if Allianz have signed up to the direct debit scheme, then they have to abide by these rules.
[/FONT]
 
Hi there and thanks for the replies.

The problem is that Perm TSB Agree I Did cancel the Direct Debit.

However Because I had 2 other Direct Debits for other Insurances Perm TSB see nothing wrong with Allianz using another Existing Direct Debit to withdraw the funds for same amount and reference number of the DD I canceled.

To Me it appears that Perm TB simply allowed Allianz to withdraw funds using the Direct Debit i canceled.

Perm TSB say that the DD I cancelled is cancelled, but Allianz Simply used another exisiting DD to take there payment.

So in other words my DD for my Pet Insurance which costs 14.00 per month also paid out my other car insurance for a car I no longer have for 30.00 euro. and had a 2nd reference number attached to it that matches a DD I canceled.

All without my authority except for the DD I canceled!
 
There is a common problem with DDs in that if there is more than one, from the same originator, mandated to the same account, the bank cannot differentiate between one and the other.

The obvious solution is to check the reference number, but this is not always static (e.g. include the repayment number in the reference) so cannot be relied upon.

It's an imperfect system.
 
If you cancelled with your Bank you are entitled to an immediate refund under the Direct Debit scheme guarantee. Your bank should not have paid out once you had cancelled.
 
I have a similar problem, but with Fitness First. 2 monts ago I cancelled my direct debit online, but yesterday I realized they have been still charging me using my debit card number details. They using the same reference but on the statement it shows as a card payment instead of DD. Do they have a right to do it? I appreciate any advice, thank you.

By the way, I spoke with my bank and they also told me it's the problem between me and Fitness First, but I filled and left my cancellation form in august and now they claim it's lost somehow. I think it's kind of abuse and not the way you should resolve this problem, using my card details without even asking.
 
Fantozzi79: You should ask your Card Acquirer for a refund on the basis that the card transactions are not authorised. The gym in question has no authority to use your card to make recurrent collections.
You need to check the agreement you signed with the gym, in particular how payments will be made and for how long.
 
Times are hard for the poor aul banks you know!
They could really do with the fee from that DD transaction!!!

We really should be helping these poor people out in their hour of need ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top