Cul De Sac and access

W

Westbound

Registered User
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Hi

We live in a group of houses in a Cul De Sac - there's about 20 houses in all and it is nice and safe area for the kids to play. At the end of the cul-de-sac, there is a small green area and a high wall (7ft) behind the wall is another large green area and another estate. The wall isn't so high on the other side (4ft) There is also an old well established hedge of ash and hawthorn, part of the fields before the estate was built.

There is a gap in this hedge which people from the other estate use as a short cut to get to the town or the local shops. We are not happy with this, as it is a cul-de-sac and we don't know who could be jumping through there next. Part of the attraction of this particular area was the privacy and security of the cul-de-sac.

Would we be in breach of anything if we plugged the gap, say with a fence panel or a few planks? One neighbour currently applys horse manure to the top of the wall and it has worked for the most part, except it dries out!

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
If the gap is an established right of way then you would be in breach of the law in unilaterally closing it off without going the normal right of way extinguishment route first. Contact your Local Authority for information.
 
Further to Clubman's Post:
Rights of Way need 20 years of continuous use to be established by the way.
 
I don't think it is a right of way, as up until a few years ago the entire are were fields. The estates were built 8 years ago. The gap in the hedge has been created by people continually squeezing through, as opposed to being deliberately cut to make room, plus the 7ft drop on the other side (i.e. our side) would to me seem to indicate it is not a right of way, just a short cut.

I will check with the local authority, just to make sure.

If isn't, is there anything stopping us plugging the gap - the obvious solution is to plant something, but it might get trampled before getting established.
 
And who exactly do you fear is going to come through the hole in the fence ? Are there dangerous terrorists living in the next estate? The little green space is there to be public open space, it is not anyone's private kingdom to be protected from raging hoards. Unless you have a specific problem with anti-social behaviour (which is a matter for the police) leave it alone. Also if you do something like put up planks or whatever you are responsible for those items, so if a child falls over your plank and knocks himself out you could be in trouble. You may find in any event that any such barrier will be removed by the county council.
 
has your cul de sac been taken in charge by the local council or is it still privately owned... this would have an impact as to what could be done
 

Fair enough-but we have had problems with anti-social behaviour-the police don't provide 24 hour security (I'm not saying they should), but I don't accept the fact that every green area in Ireland is 'public' property.
 
Couldn't agree more with this.

just one thing Im curious about - what is on the other side of the divide? is it open space or a turning bay or a private garden or what?
 
CCOVICH said:
I don't accept the fact that every green area in Ireland is 'public' property.
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Sounds like the green areas in question, on both sides of the wall, ARE in fact public property though.

Just because it's a cul de sac doesn't mean that only property owners in the cul de sac are allowed access. A public street is open to everyone (and paid for by everyone).
 
extopia said:
Just because it's a cul de sac doesn't mean that only property owners in the cul de sac are allowed access. A public street is open to everyone (and paid for by everyone).
Click to expand...

Fair enough, especially since:

Westbound said:
There is a gap in this hedge which people from the other estate use as a short cut to get to the town or the local shops.
Click to expand...

So if it is an estate managed by the council, the residents don't really have any unilateral rights to make the changes discussed. As other posters have said, best to contact the council, or even better, your local representative, and if you have enough support, you may get somewhere.
 
Beware that this kind of issue can be very divisive. Some neighbours of mine tried to have a laneway closed off as it was becoming a bit of a trouble spot for antisocial behaviour. Of course it was the shortest route to the shops for people on the other side of the lane. They resisted it furiously (naturally enough) and succeeded in preventing the closure. Now there's quite a bit of bad feeling between the two neighbouring streets, and especially towards the individual who initiated proceedings.

Is there a residents association? Good idea to talk to them to get their views or to express concerns. It's always better to sort these access issues out without involving the authorities too much, if possible.
 
Westbound,

you don't say that people coming through the hedge are causing problems but are just I gather taking a short-cut through a public road to the local town and shops... in fact the anti-social element of this is a neighbour on your road putting horse manure on a wall! ...what if older people need to get to shops, is this what they can expect from neighbours on the other side of the wall? What if that was your elderly mother or father coming through?

Seriously, are these people littering? Are they making lots of noise? What is the problem exactly other than their using a public road? If people are causing you genuine problems, then I would think you should go through the correct routes and not be taking the law into your own hands. If you're just objecting to their using a public road and nothing more, I don't think you have much to worry about imho....

I lived on a through road where we constantly had noise, litter, dublin bus with crappy old engines clanking from 6.30am to 11.45pm, rented houses next door and on street causing problems and much more...but sure we had to put up with it. Even Dublin Bus just laughed at me when I complained. Be thankful for what you have!
 
micamaca said:
...what if older people need to get to shops, is this what they can expect from neighbours on the other side of the wall? What if that was your elderly mother or father coming through?
Click to expand...

Don't know about you, but I'd be a little surprised if my parents started scaling a 7ft wall in order to take a short cut to the shops. Supergran living around there now?
 
Assuming the wall is also public property, your neighbour is probably breaking the law by defacing it with manure.
 
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