Crypto. Ponzi Scheme?

You do like to take me literally. I am not actually claiming that all cultists think bitcoin is the second coming of JC.
If you want to engage positively with the subject, then there's no need for exaggerated, inflammatory language - but rather than do so, you double down with your cultist jibes. I'd expect nothing less from you, Duke.

Fiat has been a very remarkable development for civilisation.
Fiat in the form we find it in now - post gold standard - is a very recent phenomenon in relative terms and one we have not seen unfold in its entirety.

But you and the cultists obsess on its vulnerabilities.
You have glossed over the shortcomings of the conventional system and won't address them.

I presumed that implied that you believed that with bitcoin you had achieved the perfect monetary system for the human race.
Please outline where anyone has made that claim over the course of the past 4+ years. And if the response is - 'don't take me literally' - the answer is don't deliberately exaggerate/misrepresent or use inflammatory language (as per your 'cultist' jibes). The irony - bitcoin is rules based - everybody can clearly see those rules and otherwise, its governed by maths. Fiat is governed by 'faith'!!....and here you are with your cultist claims...lol.
 
Last edited:
There's been a few false dawns but is the pyramid beginning to topple? A 34% adjustment in a month is pretty spectacular. Feel sorry for the poor creatures that bought at €56k in November.
You've placed a question mark at the end. Are you able to tell us that bitcoin is done for - it's going to zero and that will be the end of it?

Do you only feel sorry for 'poor creatures' who bought bitcoin at interim tops? Is that reserved for them or do you feel sorry for those that bought netflix, zoom, peloton, etc at recent highs? How about amazon stock when it corrected 80% in the past?
 
Last edited:
Surely the problem isn't the price fall of Bitcoin, it is the fact that it falling while inflationary pressures are at their highest in years and rising yields. The concept of bitcoin being an hedge for inflation is not holding up at the moment. Argument is not settled one way or another yet but is interesting to see.
 
If you want to engage positively with the subject, then there's no need for exaggerated, inflammatory language - but rather than do so, you double down with your cultist jibes. I'd expect nothing less from you, Duke.
Just trying to add a bit of colour.
Fiat in the form we find it in now - post gold standard - is a very recent phenomenon in relative terms and one we have not seen unfold in its entirety.
That is right, just as many of the wonders of our current civilisation are a very recent phenomenon. You seem to have singled out fiat as a step backwards.
You have glossed over the shortcomings of the conventional system and won't address them.
I have not glossed over them. I have referenced on several occasions my fear of inflation. If I was able to address them I think my services would be in such high demand you wouldn't have the pleasure of engaging with me on AAM.
I was presuming that the banging on about the imminent demise of fiat meant that bitcoin had the answer/salvation.
The irony - bitcoin is rules based - everybody can clearly see those rules and otherwise, its governed by maths.
Sure is and the very foundation of mathematics is the basic equation: 0 = 0

Fiat is governed by 'faith'!!....and here you are with your cultist claims...lol.
Yes, an element of trust and confidence (faith sounds a tad spiritual) that the custodians of our monetary system have the technical skills and more importantly my interests at heart in managing that system. I'll admit that I would not be so sanguine if we had an independent Irish Punt but then even our mad republicans never tried that one on.
 
Just trying to add a bit of colour.
Go away outta that, Duke - you know well what yer at.


That is right, just as many of the wonders of our current civilisation are a very recent phenomenon. You seem to have singled out fiat as a step backwards.
Firstly, you know well that I never claimed fiat to be 'a step backwards'. However, I have claimed that there are deficiencies in the current system. The whole reason for bitcoin existing is in response to some of those deficiencies.
As regards me pointing towards recency, its relevant because we have not seen the full consequences of fiat and Keynesian economics just yet.

If I was able to address them I think my services would be in such high demand you wouldn't have the pleasure of engaging with me on AAM.

I remember well - you said that you'd simply have to have 'faith' in the central bank gurus.

Sure is and the very foundation of mathematics is the basic equation: 0 = 0
Thank you for addressing the fact that fiat money is backed by nothing.


Yes, an element of trust and confidence (faith sounds a tad spiritual) that the custodians of our monetary system have the technical skills and more importantly my interests at heart in managing that system.
Your interests at heart? That may well be if you're in the top 10%. There's been a transfer of wealth since the onset of the pandemic with the top 10% having greatly increased their wealth at the expense of the rest. So, it could well be that they have your interests at heart if you belong to that group.
Faith does sound a bit cultish I would say - but then I'm sure you take comfort in the cultish iconography that appears on fiat currency. The "In God We Trust" type of stuff. Something had to be suggested to the plebs to convince them that a promissory note was worth the cost of the piece of paper it was printed on.
 
I'm new here but am enjoying the banter. Just an observation - it seems to me that the DOM is very reticent to let Tecate have the last word in spite of his earlier offer?
Ah now! It was on the particular rabbit hole that QE was a Ponzi scheme.
I should warn you that whilst you may find our sparring at first a source of amusement you risk being intensely bored as we have dug between us so many rabbit holes over the last number of years.
 
Gamestop hired a leading crypto developer and already accept payments, maybe looking at crypto for in game purchases.

As far as "my great plan", it isnt exactly my plan
 
There's been a transfer of wealth since the onset of the pandemic with the top 10% having greatly increased their wealth at the expense of the rest.
In danger of going off topic but yes I did read somewhere that billionaires' paper wealth increased a lot during the pandemic. I also read somewhere that ordinary folks' savings increased massively as they were prevented from enjoying themselves. I find it hard to see the "transfer" aspect of all that and harder still to see how bitcoin would have prevented it - any update on that bitcoin paradise El Salvador?
 
I also read somewhere that ordinary folks' savings increased massively as they were prevented from enjoying themselves. I find it hard to see the "transfer" aspect of all that and harder still to see how bitcoin would have prevented it.
So you accept that there is now greater societal inequality due to the conventional financial and monetary system we have and you don't see the problem? I really can't help you any further with that one.

any update on that bitcoin paradise El Salvador?
It's going just fine. I'll have boots on the ground there next month so I can give you a full report then if you'd like. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised to see another sovereign make bitcoin legal tender within the next 18 months.
 
So you accept that there is now greater societal inequality due to the conventional financial and monetary system we have and you don't see the problem? I really can't help you any further with that one.
Actually fiat had a very good pandemic, which may yet come to bite us, I agree.
It did indeed seem that there was a "money tree" with no difficulty at all in bailing out the affected sectors of our society with no immediate impact on the rest of us.
Can you begin to imagine how this would have panned out if there was a fixed money supply ala bitcoin or for that matter gold? The World would indeed have been plunged into a disastrous depression - a fear that put stocks and bitcoin into freefall in the early months of 2020, until fiat came to the rescue. Your narrative is that this was done for the benefit of billionaires.

If this works out (it mightn't; cultists can still dream) the pandemic will go down as a poster boy for the benefits of fiat to society.
 
Last edited:
Actually fiat had a very good pandemic, which may yet come to bite us, I agree.
Maybe they would have gotten away with it if they hadn't put their hands in the cookie jar back in 08 and suddenly become socialist with public money in bailing out corporates.

It did indeed seem that there was a "money tree" with no difficulty at all in bailing out the affected sectors of our society with no immediate impact on the rest of us.

The application of QE is not equitable - something that's recognised by way of the Cantillon Effect. As regards the money that made it directly into the hands of the public, you're seeing the symptoms of that already. A year ago here, there was discussion about inflation. Others were saying there was no validity to the inflationary claims. Some months later, the FED started talking about 'transitory inflation' - but once prices go up, they're not coming down again. There's no such thing as a free lunch - so ordinary people will foot the bill. The savvy billionaire set won't.

Can you begin to imagine how this would have panned out if there was a fixed money supply ala bitcoin or for that matter gold?
I recognise that there are advantages and disadvantages to every system. What you have failed to do from the very beginning of this debate is recognise that it doesn't have to be a zero sum game. You seem to be anti-choice and I would say that there has rarely been an occasion when choice has been a bad thing for society. Bitcoin can exist alongside fiat currency. It can act as an incentive for the proper management of fiat currency because as you have acknowledged yourself, there are a whole host of currencies at any given time which are being mismanaged.


a fear that put stocks and bitcoin into freefall in the early months of 2020, until fiat came to the rescue.
I'd suggest you ponder that statement a little longer. There were many folks in Weimar Germany who thought they were doing fabulously ...until they weren't. I wouldn't be so proud of that statement if I was in your shoes and trying to defend fiat. The FED has been propping up the markets for years - for the benefit of some. The conventional market has in no way behaved normally. It's been manipulated. My most recent point re. the state buying its own bonds stands testiment to this manipulation also.

Your narrative is that this was done for the benefit of billionaires.

My view is that it has been inequitable. You're the only one that I've ever seen contest the charge that QE has been anything but equitable in its application - as per the Cantillon Effect.

If this works out (it mightn't; cultists can still dream) the pandemic will go down as a poster boy for the benefits of fiat to society.

By your own admission a long time ago, we have never been here before - so you don't know that and can't say it with certainty. *Maybe* a decade long run of inflation ( a la 1970s ) will allow them to reel it in ( in which case ordinary people will have their savings vapourised ). But otherwise, your Fed/ECB are on crack when it comes to money printing. They've started and they won't be able to stop.
 
What makes me think that this is your fantasy?
Are you saying that I want this to happen? (I don't)....OR...are you saying that you see it playing out differently? I'd imagine you can't be sure as previously when I asked you how much is too much (money printing), you didn't know. 40% more usd was put into circulation. The Canadian government presided over money printing that exceeded the entire CAD print of all previous governments combined. It's fitting you should bring in the word fantasy as its a fantasy if anyone thinks that these guys can just magic up cash without paying the price of tomorrow (because tomorrow has to come at some point...there's only so much kicking the can down the road that can be done ).
 
Last edited:
I see that "fantasy" has a double meaning. I meant one in particular but both will do.

I would hate to live in a country like Russia where the system is run for the elites. It’s really quite sad that some folk who live in the civilised free West think the same. Where would their location of choice be?
Ah, I know. El Salvador.
 
Last edited:
I would hate to live in a country like Russia where the system is run for the elites. It’s really quite sad that some folk who live in the civilised free West think the same. Where would their location of choice be?
Ah, I know. El Salvador.

For a guy that once mentioned that money & monetary/economic systems evolve, you don't seem to be in any way open to striving to improve anything...and before you come back with "certainly not bitcoin" - you're obstinance goes far beyond that - with the complete reticence in acknowledging that there are problems to be solved in the system that we have inherited.
In tandem with that, you're continually making the very same mistake as many others have done - you're continually considering what use is bitcoin to me and not considering it in global terms. It isn't an Irish phenomenon - it's a global phenomenon and to not consider it in that context is to miss the point completely. Along similar lines, to assume that the level of utility in bitcoin is evenly spread based on how you find it in Ireland - assuming the scenario to be the same in other parts of the world - is a mistake.
 
Last edited: