credit card fraud & chip and pin

Good luck!

Hi All

Just to update you all on what happened in this case, the Financial Ombudsman ruled that the bank were at fault for not having the correct security systems in place - he also ruled that I was at fault for not keeping my pin secret and that each party was liable for 50% of the fee.

Expensive night out but pursuing the matter, I got at least 50% of the money refunded to the account. I have now decreased my credit card limit from 9K (because they just keep on putting it up) to 3K so that i will not be left exposed like this again.

I am also over the top when entering my pin into machines, particularily in restaurants, have even asked people to look away.

Well lessons learned!! I for one will not be caught again!

Thanks for all the supportive comments!!

THanks for reporting back with the final outcome.

Goes to prove that Chip and Pin is mainly for the banks protection. The consumer is no better off than before. IMO.

Angrylad. Glad to see you got something back, though I was hoping for a better outcome for you. It's been a really long haul for you. Hope they wrote off the interest.

Can't believe there was no attempt to bring the merchant into it at any stage. One of the staff had to be involved as who else would have access to the machine ?

It's a lesson to us all.

This post has really given me the hebegebees!

I am going to get in touch with my two credit card providers (AIB and Amex) and get them to lower my limits straight away.

Just to be clear - does having a lower limit shift the responsibility from the CC owner to the CC provider in the case of a fraudulant transaction which exceeds the limit?

I got some dodgy looks shopping yesterday I was so paranoid entering my pin, its a scary thread the banks should be ashamed of themselves

laragh said:

...Just to be clear - does having a lower limit shift the responsibility from the CC owner to the CC provider in the case of a fraudulant transaction which exceeds the limit?

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I'm confused I thought you shouldn't be able to exceed the limit.

I'm confused I thought you shouldn't be able to exceed the limit.

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My understanding is that you can exceed the limit alright but there is a penalty for doing so - around €20 or so but this may vary depending on the provider. Time to dig out the T&C just to check.....!

Ah ok. Didn't realise that.

They should have a better system. Where you can lock to the limit unless you approve it by some other validated means.

I know from my own card (low limit - got cross with the bank years ago for raising it and sending a "congratulations" letter and insisted that they never do so without my expressly requesting it) that if I try purchase over the limit it usually refuses. However I have noticed that this is not consistent. Unintentionally tested this last Christmas, RyanAir for example seem to refuse if you are too near your limit (even if you will still, by my calculation, be under it after their transaction!!!) but using the same card for another reasonably large purchase that same day it presented no issues and I even managed to push it over the limit and get a lovely warning letter from the bank (by which stage of course the balance was paid and the letter was pointless).

Angrylad,

I've had the exact same thing to me happen while in Frankfurt and couple of months ago.

Only difference is that 2 of the transactions were on my laser card and were not chip & pin but swiped and signed.

I had not idea about the transactions until the following day when my wife rang me asking if I had I had lost my credit card. When I rang my bank (AIB) the following day, I was still unaware of any transaction's carried out on my laser card until I tried to take cash out of the ATM. Wouldn't give me any cash, rang bank again. They then informed me, and only then I must stress, that roughly €2800 had been withdrawn from my current account through a mixtre of ATM transactions and the old method of pushing a transaction through for a signature (not chip & pin transactions). I accept that I am liable for the ATM transaction's as they require my pin number, but I should not be liable for the signed transactions (2, one for €960 and the other for €980), unless of course I signed the bloody things, which I most definitely do not remember doing.

When I got back from Franfurt, I went to my branch about the transactions, asking what could be done....etc. I was told I had to what for the transactions to actually be processed before they could investigate. The 2 swiped and signed transactions took a week and a half to actually be debited from my account. I then put in a request for receipt with the bank, for which I have been charged by the bank I might add. Fair enough. When I put in the request for receipt I was told it could take up to 120 days. Okay. I was also told that if the merchant could not or would not provide them with proof of transaction or signature then I would not be held liable and refunded.

Got in touch with my bank yesterday to see if there was any progress. I was politely inormed that they have received no response from either the merchant in Franfurt or the Bank in Germany. I was then told that because the transactions were carried out in a foreign country, tough luck, nothing they can do to refund the money, on yer bike.

I reminded the person in customer services, who I was dealing with from day one, of our conversation when I was putting inthe request for refund etc....He said, "Yeah, I would have thought you were entitled to a refund, let me get in touch with the fraud department again to make sure". Still waiting for him to call back.

At this stage, pulling my hair out. Could you please, please, please give me the address for the Financial Ombudsman here in Ireland. I refuse to let this drop until I have proof before my eyes that I was stupid enough to sign off two seperate transactions within half an hour of each other for that kind of money.

Many thanks.

Go to the Gardaí now. Tell them that the bank are facillating fraud by doing nothing about it.

Go back to the bank when it is busy and make a scene.

mmalone77 said:

Could you please, please, please give me the address for the Financial Ombudsman here in Ireland

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See here [broken link removed]

angrylad said:

On a recent visit to Brussels I was in a late bar and there were 19 attempted transactions on my BOI credit card, in total €8,000 was taken from my credit card.

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Here is a nice and in-depth explanation of credit card fraud

i heard you got a ruling in your favour on the radio....i presume it were you cause it mentioned figures and a bar in brussels..

Here's the details from the [broken link removed]

Case 3- Credit Card Fraud and ‘on the town’ event merits compensation of €2,500
A night out, or perhaps more precisely, a morning out “on the town” in Brussels, had
unfortunate consequences for a Credit Card holder. It appears he visited various night
spots. At one place, officially described by the Credit Card Company as a “drinking
place/alcoholic beverages merchant”, it appears from his Credit Card account that the
Complainant made four purchases totalling €7,750. One item was for €250 and was
not disputed. The other transactions were for €2,500 each and were recorded on the
system as having taken place at 4:40 a.m., 5:11 a.m. and 5:32 a.m. The Cardholder
complained to the bank which refunded €2,000 of the total amount because the credit
limit on the account had been exceeded by that amount. The Complainant complained
to the Ombudsman that the bank should pay the full amount. The bank refused.
Having investigated the case, the Ombudsman found that clearly the Complainant had
been a victim of a “rip off” at this venue which he had attended. However the
Ombudsman could not see how the bank should be held responsible for the entire cost
of this “rip off”.
Nevertheless the Ombudsman decided that the bank’s security system ought to have
done better when three transactions for €2,500 took place within one hour in the early
hours of the morning in the city of Brussels and was not in line with the cardholder’s
usual pattern of spend. As it turns out, not even a “ripple of unease” appears to have
passed through the bank’s fraud prevention system. This, the Ombudsman considered,
was a failure on the part of the bank.
In assessing compensation the Ombudsman took account of the fact that the bank had
already refunded €2,000 to the Credit Card account and also took account of the fact
that the Complainant must have been somewhat careless in securing his Card. The
Ombudsman directed the bank to pay a further €2,500 in compensation.

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I thought this case was angrylad's from this thread.

However, the details are different. I wonder if it's the same establishment?

Sounds very similar alright.

Brussels card fraud

Dear Angrylad. I realise that this goes back 4 1/2 years, but having suffered from a similar scam recently (for similar sums of money) I am curious to know if there was a similar pattern of operation. Like you, I went with two friends, from whom I was quickly separated by girls working in the club. I wonder whether I had already been singled out as a target. Like you, I am not a stranger to drink, but I typically remember most of what happened on some of my most extreme binges. On this occasion I would say that I was comatose throughout most of the evening, so I wonder whether I was not drugged. At some point in the night I was taken by taxi from one club where money had already been taken from a card to another where more money was taken. Both clubs ensured that I had their credit card slips in my wallet, but there was not a single bill for whatever services I was supposed to have received. The two clubs in question were called Interdit and Drink Inn. Any of this sound familiar?