Credibility of Ivan Yates article about public sector pay

2bmortgagefree

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There is a lot of articles on the likely fall out of the pay concessions to nurses across all media platforms but today's article in the Irish Independent needs to be examined closely.

Ivan Yates and no doubt the Irish Independent are trying to divide public and private sector workers. His article is suggesting that the 1.7 million private workers are paying for the wage demands of public sector workers.

Few points need to be made

Ordinary workers private and public sector are scraping by day to day. Workers being pitted against each other only serves wealthy business interests some of whom have big stakes in the media.

Most workers would not seek wage increases if they though something was being done to tackle the cost of living in this country i.e. insurance, vrt, rent, legal costs, mortgage interest rates etc the simple fact is that the establishment has done nothing to tackle these.

Ivan Yates himself has gained from pension increases linked to public sector pay. And let's not forgot he left behind a large amount of debt that both public and private sector workers are paying the price for.

An United approach by workers should be adopted with tackling the high cost of living before wage increases should be in everyone's interests.

Discuss.
 
Credibility of Ivan Yates? Why choose this topic to bring that up? There are lots of examples you could find if that's the topic.

If you really want to talk about public / private divide, or specifically the nurses strike, there are threads covering both already. They typically descend into the same few debates depending on whether the poster is a private or public sector employee, so don't expect much reasoned unbiased discussion here.
 
The reason I choose this topic to bring up Ivan Yates credibility is that, this is the topic he writes about in today's paper.

Ivan Yates has zero credibility in my eyes when he has benefited from public pay increases, he has unpaid debts and either public or private workers shouldn't buy the line that's he's spinning. Ivan is still keeping valuable property at arms length from the banks to pay back the debts he owes. Ivan has no place having a go at ordinary workers

The country is at crossroads, we as workers can keep chasing pay increases but in the country's interest tackling cost of living will be better for both public and private sector workers. The play one set of workers against another will do nothing for workers in the long run.
 
I have worked in the private sector all of my life so has my wife ,

Private sector workers have a very strange outlook when it comes to protecting there own future and are beyond help ,

I expect you will see what I mean between monday and friday ,

Private sector workers don't believe in democracy and fairness for there own and will fight to keep it that way ,the enemy of the private sector is the private sector itself,

which means public servants through no fault of there own finish off being treated better by Governments they get there own share along with the share private sector workers don't take up,

I suspect 2bmortgagefree is a public servant and will fight for fairness for all public servants,
 
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I'm not a worker.
I derive my income from my labour so I'm a worker.
Retired people are not workers.
People who derive all or most of their income from welfare are not workers.

Ivan Yates has no credibility but it is important to hear contrarian voices outside the populist left-wing liberal establishment.
If you read a newspaper or listen to a news source and you agree with everything they say then they are biased.

I read the Guardian and the Irish Times. I agree with almost all of their social and political commentary because I'm a liberal.
I disagree with much of their economic reporting because I'm not a populist-socialist.

It's important to listen to people who you disagree with. It draws you to the center. Oh, and never get your news from Facebook.

As for the whole "There's an agenda to split the Public and Private sectors" thing; I don't think there is. There are just sectoral interests. Balancing those interests is what democracy is all about. There is no agenda by "the rich" to impoverish the "wurkers". There are no lizard people, there is no illuminati, there is no international jewish conspiracy. For all its faults this country works reasonably well and Our democracy is reasonably sound.

Employers are just people who employ other people. Talking about employers or wealthy people as if they are morally deficient just because they are rich is just bigoted.

If you want to see a reduction in insurance costs then reduce the cost of claims.
If you want to see a reduction in mortgage rates then increase the rates of repossession of properties.
If you want to see a reduction in rent then get the construction sector working properly (who says it's just the Public Sector that is wasteful and inefficient).

None of this is a mystery but conflating it with pay claims for people earning in excess of €50,000 a year is nonsense.
 
The reason I choose this topic to bring up Ivan Yates credibility is that, this is the topic he writes about in today's paper.

Ivan Yates has zero credibility in my eyes when he has benefited from public pay increases, he has unpaid debts and either public or private workers shouldn't buy the line that's he's spinning. Ivan is still keeping valuable property at arms length from the banks to pay back the debts he owes. Ivan has no place having a go at ordinary workers

The country is at crossroads, we as workers can keep chasing pay increases but in the country's interest tackling cost of living will be better for both public and private sector workers. The play one set of workers against another will do nothing for workers in the long run.

Ivan Yates wasn't the first and won't be the last to go through the bankruptcy process

I find him OK in small doses but this idea that he can't comment on anything due to loosing his business is just silly
 
I derive my income from my labour so I'm a worker.
Retired people are not workers.
People who derive all or most of their income from welfare are not workers.

Ivan Yates has no credibility but it is important to hear contrarian voices outside the populist left-wing liberal establishment.
If you read a newspaper or listen to a news source and you agree with everything they say then they are biased.

I read the Guardian and the Irish Times. I agree with almost all of their social and political commentary because I'm a liberal.
I disagree with much of their economic reporting because I'm not a populist-socialist.

It's important to listen to people who you disagree with. It draws you to the center. Oh, and never get your news from Facebook.

As for the whole "There's an agenda to split the Public and Private sectors" thing; I don't think there is. There are just sectoral interests. Balancing those interests is what democracy is all about. There is no agenda by "the rich" to impoverish the "wurkers". There are no lizard people, there is no illuminati, there is no international jewish conspiracy. For all its faults this country works reasonably well and Our democracy is reasonably sound.

Employers are just people who employ other people. Talking about employers or wealthy people as if they are morally deficient just because they are rich is just bigoted.

If you want to see a reduction in insurance costs then reduce the cost of claims.
If you want to see a reduction in mortgage rates then increase the rates of repossession of properties.
If you want to see a reduction in rent then get the construction sector working properly (who says it's just the Public Sector that is wasteful and inefficient).

None of this is a mystery but conflating it with pay claims for people earning in excess of €50,000 a year is nonsense.

The best interests of the private sector can never be in sync with those of the public sector, this "divide" stuff is nonsense as there has always been a gap
 
Ivan is right re public sector pensions, they got paid their expected amounts while the private sector pensions were disamated during the recession.
Public sector kept their jobs albeit at reduced salaries. No harm to hear a dissenting voice .
 
Ivan is right re public sector pensions, they got paid their expected amounts while the private sector pensions were disamated during the recession.
Public sector kept their jobs albeit at reduced salaries. No harm to hear a dissenting voice .

To be fair people in the public sector offered a dissenting voice about how the Government treatment of private sector workers who lost there jobs having taken around 19% of payroll in PRSI and finished up giving them the same amount of money as someone who never worked a day in there life when the found themself out of a job,

If you read 2dmortgagefree first post this is part of what He/She is saying,The 1.7 million are not making a very good job of looking out for one another,
 
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To be fair people in the public sector offered a dissenting voice about how the Government treatment of private sector workers who lost there jobs having taken over around 19% of payroll in PRSI and finished up giving them the same amount of money as someone who never worked a day in there life when the found themself out of a job,

If you read 2dmortgagefree first post this is part of what He/She is saying,The 1.7 million are not making a very good job of looking out for one another,
That 19%, along with a load more, is taken to pay Public Sector wages and pensions. Maybe that's why some in the private sector are dissatisfied.
 
I read the Guardian and the Irish Times. I agree with almost all of their social and political commentary because I'm a liberal.
I disagree with much of their economic reporting because I'm not a populist-socialist.

The Guardian (and to a less extent the Irish Times ) has been almost totally taken over by the idea of identity politics. This is the very antithesis of Liberalism.
 
The Guardian (and to a less extent the Irish Times ) has been almost totally taken over by the idea of identity politics. This is the very antithesis of Liberalism.
I agree. I find sexism and racism and misogyny and homophobia offensive. I also find inverted snobbery offensive and I find the bigotry of most people who profess to be socialists offensive. Should they all be silenced to protect my sensibilities?
 
I am not in general in favour of silencing anyone. The Guardian has too many writers who see the world as black people, as women, as gay people, and too few who view the world just as people. There are more things which unite than divide most of us, identity politics would see ourselves as different from as many as possible. Liberalism sees no differences between people as people.
 
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