Cowengate

Betsy Og

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Haven't had the time to get into it in detail, but it strikes me as a fairly trivial thing for the Dáil to be focussed on considering the whole world is in a state o' chassis.

Did he deserve to be sacked?, I wouldn't have thought so.
 
Yes, he deserved to go on a purely political viewpoint.

He landed his party leader and his Govt cabinet colleagues in quiet the spot of bother only weeks into their tenure.
He should have disclosed this back in 2016 to his party leader.
He questioned the validity of a Garda report which was going to either leave him or the Gardai as liars.

Should have gone last week.
 
He should have disclosed this back in 2016 to his party leader.
He questioned the validity of a Garda report which was going to either leave him or the Gardai as liars.

On the first point, unless you've been dragged backwards through the bush by the media then it may as well have never happened. Lets say he told MM at the time, and MM said - Don't do it again, would that have made everything ok now??

On the second point, its a question of fact whether he was pursued or not. I'm inclined to believe Cowen on the basis that the Guard would surely remember chasing him, and as he says himself the charge would've been different. I am a supporter of An Garda Siochana, and by and large they've served us well, but mistakes (& worse) do happen, so citizens of good standing have a right to be believed and in due course I bet he'll come out on the right side of that investigation.

Bottom line if it was a FF majority he'd be going nowhere, so on the one hand its great that accountability is all the rage now, but I just think it is both a distraction and a disproportinate price to pay for not an outrageous sin.
 
It wasn't a once off incident. Seems like he, as an elected TD, repeatedly broke the law around driving on a provisional licence.
This isn't something he did way back when as a 20 year old.
This guy seems like a chancer - probably MM's mistake was ever appointing him in the first place.
I suspect more would come out of the woodwork about other corners he cut.
The Taoiseach has to trust the ministers he works with. IF he feels he cannot trust one of his own ministers he is entitled to sack him, and Cowen's actions here both in 2016 and over the last 10 days have demonstrated why.
 
My view of this matter is coloured by the fact that I really don't like Barry Cowen. I have always found him petty, party political and a throwback to the bad old days of parish pump FF.
I feel sorry for anyone who loses their job in this manner. It shows just how difficult politics is.
That said he is drawing the wrong kind of heat on the government so he had to go.
 
It wasn't a once off incident. Seems like he, as an elected TD, repeatedly broke the law around driving on a provisional licence.
It seems there's lots of people like this, I don't think its against the law as such.

[/QUOTE] The Taoiseach has to trust the ministers he works with. IF he feels he cannot trust one of his own ministers he is entitled to sack him, and Cowen's actions here both in 2016 and over the last 10 days have demonstrated why.
[/QUOTE]
I think MM is coming out v badly, he backed him at lunchtime and sacked him by tea time (& nothing changed in the meantime as far as we know).

Maybe Cowen is no loss to government, I don't know much about him, but I think the whole thing hangs on whether he did a U-turn and is now lying about it. If it's shown the he is correct then what are we left with?, more inexplicable bungling of record keeping, illegal leaks, a vindictive press (?), and a guy still sacked because MM hadn't the backbone to see it out until the enquiry reported. Could be a long 2 years with this 'rainbow' ......
 
On the first point, unless you've been dragged backwards through the bush by the media then it may as well have never happened. Lets say he told MM at the time, and MM said - Don't do it again, would that have made everything ok now??

Maybe. Or maybe, with a publicly known drink-driving conviction, he wouldn't have been in the running for a Ministerial post in first place?

I'm inclined to believe Cowen on the basis that the Guard would surely remember chasing him, and as he says himself the charge would've been different

Is that what happened? Or did he try use his constitutional privilege as a TD, to be prevented going to, or coming from the Oireachtas to try get through the checkpoint without a breath test?
 
On the first point, unless you've been dragged backwards through the bush by the media then it may as well have never happened. Lets say he told MM at the time, and MM said - Don't do it again, would that have made everything ok now??

On the second point, its a question of fact whether he was pursued or not. I'm inclined to believe Cowen on the basis that the Guard would surely remember chasing him, and as he says himself the charge would've been different. I am a supporter of An Garda Siochana, and by and large they've served us well, but mistakes (& worse) do happen, so citizens of good standing have a right to be believed and in due course I bet he'll come out on the right side of that investigation.

Bottom line if it was a FF majority he'd be going nowhere, so on the one hand its great that accountability is all the rage now, but I just think it is both a distraction and a disproportinate price to pay for not an outrageous sin.
I know of people who did a u-turn at a checkpoint and got chased and stopped. They received no extra penalty over and above being found out for drink driving or insurance/NCT/Tax offences.

I agree that if FF were in a majority that there would be a good chance he would have rode this storm out. Even if it was just FG, that could have been the case. But I'm sure this made the Green's nervous and they had to be seen to stand tall in the early days of the new Govt.
So he had to go.

I also think, as others have said here, that there's more to come out about the bould Barry!
 
Is that what happened? Or did he try use his constitutional privilege as a TD, to be prevented going to, or coming from the Oireachtas to try get through the checkpoint without a breath test?

I haven't heard that allegation. As regards more to come out, I don't honestly know, but it seems to me that now would be the time to air it if there's more to be said.
 
My view of this matter is coloured by the fact that I really don't like Barry Cowen. I have always found him petty, party political and a throwback to the bad old days of parish pump FF.
Absolutely! Must be the shortest term served by a Minister in the history of the State.
 
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Maybe. Or maybe, with a publicly known drink-driving conviction, he wouldn't have been in the running for a Ministerial post in first place?

Perhaps, though I don't think the offence is of that magnitude.

I think the smart thing to do would've been to make a statement after he'd finished his driving ban, expressing sorrow, its in the past blah blah, when no-one really cared one way or the other. Like when some (normal) person is going for US president they try to get any skeletons out there before the campaign starts so there's no torpedo at a crucial moment.
 
Maybe. Or maybe, with a publicly known drink-driving conviction, he wouldn't have been in the running for a Ministerial post in first place?
I think that may well be the case, especially if it was also public that he drove on a provisional licence for years.
Is that what happened? Or did he try use his constitutional privilege as a TD, to be prevented going to, or coming from the Oireachtas to try get through the checkpoint without a breath test?
I think that may be one thing he can't be accused of. Wasn't a FF TD accused of do that to avoid a stop back in the 70's or 80's?
 
Some people have driven on provisional licences all their lives. If that's a scandal then its a scandal of administration, & there are probably thousands on that particular (crowded) naughty step, scandalised every last one of them....
 
It seems there's lots of people like this, I don't think its against the law as such.

It is a penalty point offence to drive on a provisional licence unaccompanied.
It was against the law. He was a law maker at the time and has no excuse.
Especially important that such individuals do not think themselves above the law.
iirc One of the reasons it was brought in as an offence was due to crashes by such drivers at night, after a few drinks or just tired.
And I think I read the reason he failed the drink driving check was because it is lower for those on a provisional licence - for the above reasons.
 
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The writing was on the wall once MM viewed the Garda file and described it as 'not quite as portrayed'. To me that was a long way from a clear rebuttal of the attempted evasion accusation. Along with refusing the party request to address the dail it was resign of be fired.
 
Absolutely! Must be the shortest term served by a Minister in the history of the State.

You would think so but nope - Jim McDaid lasted one day as Minister for Defence only for a photo to emerge of him being pally with Provos.
That was a coalition government also (FF + PDs).
 
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