Confidence in the Civil Service

I think the big problem with the civil service is that they don't recruit experienced people at higher levels from the private sector into higher levels in the civil service. Everyone seems to have to enter at junior levels and work their way up. This then limits the pool of talent available for recruitment. Many private sector companies used to operate the same way a long time ago like Guinness. This is an anochrism that should be ended.
 

This is not true at all, check out publicjobs.ie for details of competitions up to assistant principal level. There are also specialist grades which recruit from qualified personnel, details of which will also be found on that website as they arise.

As an employee, my observation would be that apparent incompetence stems from the older generation civil servant, who has done his time, has had little success in this career due to embargos/little opportunity etc and who is basically biding his time. There is far more competition within the new generation. I myself started out at the lowest rung of the ladder, not as the invariable thicko that joe sod eludes to, but as a stop gap until I decided what to do with my life. Having seen the opportunities available I decided to stay and have now been successful in several different competitions, of which joe public was perfectly entitled to apply and compete for. Yet I outshone some of these applicants! Don’t understand the modern day phenomenon that unless you have PhDs coming out your ears you are incompetent! The civil service is an organisation of some 29,000 people; find me an industry that size where no in competency exists!!
 
Worked with an individual in the private sector who was useless beyond belief.
Not unintelligent but productivity was close to Absolute Zero.He moved to public sector, was made permanent and got promotion.
 
Grumpy said:
Worked with an individual in the private sector who was useless beyond belief.
Not unintelligent but productivity was close to Absolute Zero.He moved to public sector, was made permanent and got promotion.
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Maybe the job suited him better?
There are too many civil servants to tar them all with the same brush. My problem with the civil service is it's structure and the utter lack of sanction for monumental screw up's. Every organisation would love a transient boss that could be fed to the wolves whenever things got bad and deflect criticism from everyone else who worked there. But we can't all have a government minister to sack (and bounce into another department for a repeat performance).
 
Sounds just like the many Bungee bosses I've encountered in multi-national world.
 
There are too many civil servants to tar them all with the same brush.
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Why not? By the very fact that they work in the civil service means they all have at least one thing in common.

It takes a certain type of individual to work in the civil service.
 
Do you really think that all Civil/Public Servants are a homogenous group? Does the same apply to those working in private industry? If not why not?
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Why not? By the very fact that they work in the civil service means they all have at least one thing in common.
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Extending that logic, all MEN have one thing in common. Does that make all men the same??? (Ladies, don't answer!!!)
 
By definition, all civil servants have chosen a career in the civil service. This is a common link.

The civil service has its own way of running things and rewarding people, using grades, scales, length of service etc.

I like to draw inferences from the above.
 

I agree, Magoo. Inferences on the basis of what? Surely it is a matter for each employer to determine how they will recruit, promote, retain and manage staff. So long as they comply with the law and employees rights are not infringed, I don't see a problem with this.

In addition, you haven't however answered the previous question. What 'type' of person joins the Civil Service..........?
 
Just for clarity, can I point out that civil servants are "rewarded" as follows - (1) by being paid on a pay scale for whatever grade they happen to be. Unless you are at the top of the scale, you are eligible for an increment annually. I stress the word eligible - payment of increments is not automatic, but based on criteria such as attendance, performance, fulfillment of objectives of a particular role etc.

(2) Like in most organisations, staff are eligible to apply for promotion after a certain length of service. In recent years, promotion has been very limited due to a "cap" on public service numbers and the whole decentralisation debacle.

Can someone please enlighten me as to how this differs so much from other sectors (other than the fact that CS don't earn commission or bonuses or the like)? And I'd still like an answer as to what "type" of person joins the civil service, please.
 
Does this theorem work the same way for people who choose a career in the private service - i.e. lump them all together and draw inferences from the way things are run in private industry?
 
I think the 'type' of person they are referring to according to the stereotype is lazy and unambitious. Only interested in getting a guaranteed paycheck for life. No need to ever push yourself too hard. No need to ever take a risk.
(No need to drive a new train!) No danger of ever getting sacked.
Meat and two veg everyday.

This is the stereotype. I'm sure not everyone is like that.
I think there are many that fit the lazy and unambitious tag in the private sector but what gets peoples noses out of joint with civil servants is that 'we' pay them.
 
Does this theorem work the same way for people who choose a career in the private service - i.e. lump them all together and draw inferences from the way things are run in private industry?
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I would suspect it does. Certain 'types' of people become priests, racing car drivers, computer programmers etc. Why would you think otherwise?

My comments are not meant to be derogatory or anything. I'm quite suprised at the response to be honest!

The 'Type' of person who might like to join the civil service probably likes this stuff:

This would drive me insane. I'd just simply like to be rewarded for the work I produce.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I would suspect it does. Certain 'types' of people become priests, racing car drivers, computer programmers etc. Why would you think otherwise?
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So what conclusions do you draw about the many people who move from private sector to public sector? Or from public to private? Or back/forward a couple of times over the course of a career?
 
So what conclusions do you draw about the many people who move from private sector to public sector? Or from public to private? Or back/forward a couple of times over the course of a career?
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I would regard these as a multi-facetted type.


I suppose this, taken from another thread, was the kind of thing I was thinking about. Certain types of people applying for certain posts.
 
Well umop3p!sdn, the "type" of person you keep referring to must be on the increase - recent competitions for entry to both the public and civil service have attracted 10s of thousands of applicants - over 10,000 alone for the clerical officer grade, the most junior grade.

If you are the type of person who prefers to be rewarded simply for the work you've produced then fair play to you - I hope for your own sake that you never have to face any type of serious illness, cause you may end up seriously out of pocket (assuming that you would stick to your guns and refuse to claim any benefit due, on the basis of your poor productivity ) My advice - start saving for that rainy day!
 

That 'type' of person looks pretty smart to me right now. Having experienced redundancy a couple of times and looking at the state of the world and Irish economies in the medium term I must admit to having thought of joining the civil service myself a few times!
 
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