"Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants"..statement by Michael O'Leary in SIndo

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liaconn

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As a Civil Servant of many years, I was disconcerted to read a statement by Michael O'Leary in yesterday's Sunday Independent, stating that 'most' civil servants must take a compulsory 10 days sick leave a year. On my first day at work, some lying meany in Personnel told me the following:

You could only take 7 uncertified sick days a year, and this was a maximum figure not a target.

You could only take 2 days in a row uncertified and after that, you had to produce a doctor's note.

You could only take sick leave if you were actually sick, and abusing this would be a disciplinary action.

You could only take a certain number of sick days (certified or uncertified) over a 3 year period before you were barred from going for promotion.


Like an eejit, I fell for all that rubbish and am now owed scores of 'compulsory sick days' that I haven't been taking over the years. I was just wondering if any fellow civil servants could direct me to the 'compulsory sick leave' circular, to back up my claim. I'm sure it must exist as the article in question was edited by Senior Reporter, Daniel McConnell, and I'm sure he wouldn't print something like that (and flag it on the front page) without checking his facts.


Thanks.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

A STARTLING 100,000 working days were lost in one month in the HSE due to absenteeism.

The unpublished HSE figures show the average absence rate for health service staff in January was 6.82% — almost double the private sector average.

The figure equates, on average, to just under a day per month per staff member, of which there are 113,000 in total. However, the average levels of non-attendance are eclipsed by some sections of individual hospitals and agencies, where absenteeism was far higher.

It is thought non-attendance at work costs the health services €150 million a year in replacement staff.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

I'm in the HSE and was told something similar. Now we don't have the bar on promotion if we exceed the quota over 3 years so happy days to those who make sure they take 7 sick days a year by strategically planning the leave so as not to coincide with the public holiday and concessions days. Anyway they deserve credit for the planning and organizing skills involved.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Teatime said:
A STARTLING 100,000 working days were lost in one month in the HSE due to absenteeism.
Click to expand...

It's startling if you decide to be startled.


I have no idea if that is excessive. More information would be needed in order to make an informed judgement. HSE staff work with people who are very ill, often with infectious diseases; they work with people who are disturbed or violent, and sometimes suffer assaults; they work with people whose lives are in serious disorder, and that can be stressful. I would expect HSE staff to lose more days to illness than most categories of worker.

However, the average levels of non-attendance are eclipsed by some sections of individual hospitals and agencies, where absenteeism was far higher.
Click to expand...

No surprise there. That's how it works with averages. But it's less sensationalist to write that some sections of the HSE have lower than average absenteeism.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Teatime said:
The figure equates, on average, to just under a day per month per staff member, of which there are 113,000 in total.
Click to expand...

I certainly haven't had a day a month sick leave, somebody must be using my sick days !

Maybe it was the psychiatric staff who've been assaulted, or the medical staff who contracted MRSA or similar, or any staff who think they've got flu' of some sort (swine or otherwise) and don't want to share.......
 
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Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Padraigb said:
It's startling if you decide to be startled.
Click to expand...

I took those lines from the Irish Examiner. I cant find the article now but I found a reference to it below.
[broken link removed]
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Teatime said:
I took those lines from the Irish Examiner. I cant find the article now but I found a reference to it below.
[broken link removed]
Click to expand...

My comment remains the same.

If you want to quote somebody else's words, it's good practice to give an attribution.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants



Teatime

The article in the Indo referred specifically to 'Civil Servants' and did not include Public Servants.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

I am always very wary of statistics in these cases but if you look at absenteeism rates across the civil service and wider public sector, there is no doubt that there is a problem there. Whether this is down to employees taking liberties, the nature of the work or is a reflection of the mismanagement of the public sector that have left people disilusioned and unmotivated can be debated. All I know is that any private sector company I have worked in would be examining the reasons behind the figures below and try and do something about it.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/absenteeism-rates-across-the-public-sector-1587718.html

Over 4% for the department of Arts, Sports and Tourism? Even though if Martin Cullen was my boss, I would tempted to stay at home as well!
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants


How does any of this imply that civil servants must take a compulsory number of sick days a year? Or am I missing something?
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

liaconn said:
How does any of this imply that civil servants must take a compulsory number of sick days a year? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Never said it did. Just saying I don't believe an absenteeism rate of 4.35% in a department like that can be explained by genuine sick leave unless there was some sort of pandemic there. Has anyone ever looked into it in detail? Until they do, neither you or I know what is genuine sick leave and what isn't.

The article you are referring to is the usual Michael O Leary publicity seeking bull****. Not even going to comment on it.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

I'm not sure I believe the issue around comp sick leave, but then again I never believed that some civil servants got a half hour off a fortnight or something like that to cash their salary cheque, even though they are paid electronically, until posters on here and the relevant union confirmed it.

Looking at some of the stats being bandied about here, if they are correct, and I have no reason to believe their not, then they do indicate a failure on managers in the public sector to manage sick leave. Sick leave can be managed down, in accordance with procedures, if managers take responsibility for it
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

......
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Delboy

From the above, and comments you have made on another thread, you seem to have been landed in one of those Sections which is used as a dumping ground for problem staff. However, it is not fair to imply that all Civil Servants behave like this. I have worked in the Civil Service for years, and the vast majority of people I have met, worked with or managed do not take excessive sick leave, fiddle certs etc although I'm sure that a minority of unscrupulous staff do. You have also stated that you're not long in the Civil Service so you really are talking from the viewpoint of an unfortunate Manager who got stuck in a problem area. While I can understand your frustration, this doesn't really quaify you to talk about the Civil Service in general.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants


I've seen the same statistics for several years running and rather than being a general problem across the civil and public sectors, it seems to be limited to a small number of departments. Indeed some parts have a lower sick rate than private sector.

However, in those departments where it is a problem, it's several percent higher than private which is worrying. Some of those are public facing health departments where the percentage will always be higher but others make no sense at all and do seem to indicate a problem where unusually high sick leave is tolerated.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

One of the other problems with the satistic here is some staff have their work week based on a 7 day week so if a person is off work for, say 6 months (183 days) it will look far worse than if someone's work week was based on a 5 day week 6 months (131 days).

The other big one of course is the health service where you can't go into work with a cold and look after people in ICU it's just not safe.

Teatime your figures are from January (colds, flu, chest infections)
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Seems like the Press - and Michael O'Leary - are in good company. Why let the truth get in the way of a good bit of Civil Service bashing.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Do believe that this is Michael O'Leary looking for attention again and throwing facts and reputations to the wind for the sake of a headline. He is at it again today with if you stand you can fly for free with Ryanair.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bu..._Allow_Passenger_To_Stand_Up_For_Cheaper_Fare

I have worked for nearly 20 years in the Civil Service and while there are slight abuses here and there, the vast vast majority of people are extremely careful when it comes to sick leave. It affects promotion, increments and basically your career prospects if it is excessive and there is evidence of abuse.

Know one colleague last week who was out with a head cold who took holidays rather than being on sick leave. That doesn' t sound like compulsory sick leave does it.
 
Re: Compulsory sick leave for Civil Servants

Bet you are all jealous of teachers who are allowed 31 days of uncertified sick leave a year. A cert is only needed is the sick leave extends past 4working days so Thur/Friday and Monday/Tuesday does not require a sick cert whie Tuesdday to Friday does!
 
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