Completing CGT Payslip & CG1 Form

[Prosper]

I’m joint executor (along with my 2 siblings and joint beneficiaries) of deceased father’s estate (mother pre-deceased). Father died June 2016. House Sale Contracts were signed July 2017, Probate Granted October 2017 and money transferred from our Solicitor Client Account to Executor Account on 1st December 2017. I’m about to complete CG1 Form and CGT Payslip A (or B ???). Before I do, I’d like to get peoples thoughts on the following:

1. When is CGT due in the above scenario i.e. Do I complete Payslip A or B ?

2. On the Payslip in the field for NAME and ADDRESS I intend to enter my father’s name eg. Estate of Joe Bloggs Deceased and his address.

3. On the Payslip in the SIGNATURE field I'll sign it and write "Executor" beside it.

4. Given that the house was sold before Probate was granted and therefore before the estate was distributed to the beneficiaries, I shall enter my father’s PPS # in the field for PPS.

5. At the top of the Form CG1 is a field for TAX REFERENCE NO. I'll enter my father’s PPS # here. In the NAME and ADDRESS field I'll enter my father's name & address but in the RETURN ADDRESS filed I'll enter my address.

6. As I am completing the Form CG1 as executor, I will sign my name stating I’m signing it in capacity of executor of Joe Bloggs Deceased’s Estate. In the field for MAIN RESIDENCE ADDRESS I shall put my address.

7. The only Capital Gain from the estate is the gain in the house price over it’s valuation at date of death. (There was also some State Savings Bonds but the gain from date of death to Probate date would be negligible). The only entries I’m going to make on the Form CG1 are:

· I’ll enter nothing on Page 2 except to enter the amount for AGGREGATE CONSIDERATION. What is this? Is it the amount that the house sold for?

· The Personal Exemption of €1,270 I don’t believe applies in this case. Am I right?

· On page 3 I’ll just enter the amount of Net Gain to be charged at 33%.

That’s all I propose to do plus enclose a cheque for Net Gain x 33%. To arrive at the Net Gain figure I’ll deduct Estate Agent commission + marketing fees and solicitors conveyancing fee + Title Restitution fee from the gross gain in house value and I'll also deduct LPT paid for 2017. Should I also deduct LPT paid for 2018 which we had to pay unfortunately?
Finally, I'll send both the Payslip + cheque and the CG1 Form to my father's local tax office and let them send the Payslip and cheque to Limerick.

 

[T McGibney]

Are the amounts in question in any way sizeable? If so, you should really get proper professional advice in case you're missing something, eg allowable incidental costs of disposal.

 

[Prosper]

allowable incidental costs of disposal.

I've read the Revenue website "Guide to CGT" and I did not see this term. However, I believe the only costs we are allowed to deduct from the amount subject to the 33% tax are Estate Agents fees and Solicitors Fees for the work done on selling the house including the costs of restituting title deeds. I'm unsure if I can deduct the LPT we paid for 2017 and 2018.

 

[T McGibney]

However, I believe the only costs we are allowed to deduct from the amount subject to the 33% tax are Estate Agents fees and Solicitors Fees for the work done on selling the house including the costs of restituting title deeds.

That sounds about right. But you're crazy to be attempting this without proper advice if the figures in question are big enough to worry about.

 

[Prosper]

That sounds about right. But you're crazy to be attempting this without proper advice if the figures in question are big enough to worry about.

I appreciate what you're saying but it's a very straightforward estate. House and State Savings. I've just now established that we cannot deduct for LPT. So I'm now going to complete the Payslip A and send a cheque for the 33% of the Gross gain in value less the EA's and Solrs fees to the Collector General in Limerick.

 

[T McGibney]

I appreciate what you're saying but it's a very straightforward estate.

Your opening post suggests that the CGT isn't that straightforward. But it's your decision whether or not take risks. Good luck with it.

 

[Prosper]

Your opening post suggests that the CGT isn't that straightforward. But it's your decision whether or not take risks. Good luck with it.

I think my opening post shows it's a straightforward estate.
The reason I made the post is because I've looked back at previous threads and there seems to be confusion and an inability of people who seem to post in a way that suggests they know but in a manner that doesn't clarify things - at least not to me - and I accept that I might just add to the confusion with my posts.
I did previously post a thread that asked for clarification on whether or not the Personal Exemption of €1270 applied in our case or not but nobody answered. My interpretation of what I've read is that it doesn't apply in our case because we sold the house as Executors during administration of the estate.

you're crazy to be attempting this without proper advice if the figures in question are big enough to worry about.

The Gross gain (sold price minus date of death valuation) was a significant 5 figure sum but the deduction of EA's and Solicitors fees brought it down to less than half the gross figure.
I did ask a Solicitor and was told that because none of us actually lived in the house at date of death, therefore the base valuation date was the date of Grant of Probate. I took the view that this interpretation was incorrect and that solr was confusing CGT and CAT. If we used the date of Grant of Probate as the base valuation date rather than the date of death valuation then we would have zero CGT to pay.
Anyway my brother was living in the house at date of death (he was a carer to our father). I thought that this would mean he would not be liable for CAT but I believe now that like me he will be liable for a small CAT (after we deduct the CGT paid from the gross CAT liabilty) as he had his own house rented out.

 

[Prosper]

I've just received confirmation from Revenue that they received my cgt return and self assessment and detailing the amount chargeable and the amount paid and showing that the balance payable is zero. I did not get a new PPS No. for the estate, as had been suggested by some on AAM but simply used my deceased fathers PPS No.