I always thought that was why we elected politicians.
Why is this function being outsourced to an unelected quango?
I always thought that was why we elected politicians.the Commission of Taxation and Welfare is being established to independently consider how best the taxation and welfare systems can support economic activity and promote increased employment and prosperity, while ensuring that there are sufficient resources available to meet the costs of public services and supports in the medium and longer term.
The Commission will advise Government. Government will make decisions.I always thought that was why we elected politicians.
Why is this function being outsourced to an unelected quango?
I thought that's why we had senior civil servants in the Department of Finance but yes, outside advice is a good idea. My issue is that this isn't really outside advice; these guys are insiders.The Commission will advise Government. Government will make decisions.
It's not reasonable to expect elected politicians to do hugely detailed work on every possible issue.
Constitutional Convention (a collection of the idle and old). The 'Social(ist) Partners' (look how well that worked out!). Governments are terrified of making decisions.I always thought that was why we elected politicians.
Why is this function being outsourced to an unelected quango?
Don't recall 'idle and old' being in the selection criteria for the Constitutional Convention or Citizens Assembly, the ones that moved us significantly down the road on Marriage Equality and Repeal. They both met at weekends iirc, and had a representative sample of age and other criteria.Constitutional Convention (a collection of the idle and old). The 'Social(ist) Partners' (look how well that worked out!). Governments are terrified of making decisions.
I can't see too many working people with families being able to participate in the Citizens Assembly. In that sense it is a self selecting group from within the cohort originally identified by Red C.Don't recall 'idle and old' being in the selection criteria for the Constitutional Convention or Citizens Assembly, the ones that moved us significantly down the road on Marriage Equality and Repeal. They both met at weekends iirc, and had a representative sample of age and other criteria.
Lots of working people with families get involved in politics or activist groups or campaigns. I'd say many of them would be fascinated by the opportunity to take part in the Citizens Assembly and even influence the outcome. It is indeed self-selecting as is every single public consultation, including elections.I can't see too many working people with families being able to participate in the Citizens Assembly. In that sense it is a self selecting group from within the cohort originally identified by Red C.
Yep, but many just wouldn't have the time. I'm a single parent so there's no chance someone like me could do it.Lots of working people with families get involved in politics or activist groups or campaigns. I'd say many of them would be fascinated by the opportunity to take part in the Citizens Assembly and even influence the outcome.
Ah now voting is a bit less of a commitment, I'm sure you'd agree.It is indeed self-selecting as is every single public consultation, including elections.
For me, it lacks independence. In the first meeting, Humphrey's told them that decreasing the State pension wasn't an option. And we have since the pension go up by €5 in the Budget.
Why do we bother with these echo chambers?
Why is this function being outsourced to an unelected quango?
Working in the industry and as someone always looking for content for my blog (if there's any topics people want covered, let me knowIn fairness, they get enough grief so these 'Commissions' are set up as distractions, albeit with well intentioned personnel on board most of the time.
I'm wondering what they could practically do to enable wider participation - on-site childcare might be an option for those with younger kids. I'm not sure there is any real option to assist parents of teenagers, for example.Yep, but many just wouldn't have the time. I'm a single parent so there's no chance someone like me could do it.
Ah now voting is a bit less of a commitment, I'm sure you'd agree.
Is there any indication that the current Commissions AREN'T already independent? I'm not sure we need doubling up of Commissions. The whole purpose of the current Commissions is to get an independent view, away from politicians and civil servants.Interesting post from Steven Barrett in the thread on the Pensions Commission Report
Pensions Commission report published
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/6cb6d-report-of-the-commission-on-pensions/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/PensionsCommissionReport/ By a significant majority (10 out of 11 members *), the Commission recommends a gradual incremental increase in the State Pension age by three months each year...www.askaboutmoney.com
If you appoint a Commission, you really should give it free rein.
In the UK, the former Chief Scientific Officer found it necessary to set up "Independent Sage" .
Official Sage is the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies
What is Independent SAGE?
Independent SAGE is a group of scientists who are working together to provide independent scientific advice to the UK government and public on how to minimise deaths and support Britain’s recovery from the COVID-19 crisis
Maybe that is what we need in Ireland?
An Independent Tax and Welfare Commission
An Independent Pensions Commission
An Independent Housing Commission
Not working in conflict with the official Commissions, but complementing them.
The Fiscal Advisory Council is a different kettle of fish all together. It has full-time, permanent staff (a bunch of economists) and isn't timebound like the Commission on Taxation and Work or Commission on Defence Forces. They have a decent record for standing up to and disagreeing with Government, and warning Government about certain actions.It is pure window dressing. Same as the Fiscal Advisory Council, Low Wage Commission etc
The purpose is to provide plausible defence mechanism for politicians. In fairness, they get enough grief so these 'Commissions' are set up as distractions, albeit with well intentioned personnel on board most of the time.
If Low Pay Commission says minimum wage should rise by €0.50c an hour then the dilemma for government is not whether minimum wage should rise by €0.50c an hour or not, but rather do they follow the advice of the Commission or not regardless of any amount of increase in minimum wage.
The opposition, regardless of who they are, will argue one of two things.
1) If the government implements the advice of the Low Pay Commission then the government should have, could have done more.
Or
2) if the government ignores low pay commission then opposition will argue government has ignored advice of commission so why have them there in first place.
* apologies, watching re-runs of Yes Minister, and this circus is all too familiar.
It's probably as good as it can be. My point is that it is relatively self selecting.I'm wondering what they could practically do to enable wider participation - on-site childcare might be an option for those with younger kids. I'm not sure there is any real option to assist parents of teenagers, for example.
It's not that they aren't independent, it's that they are all from inside the current establishment. If you want fresh thinking you need fresh minds. I firmly believe that if the boards of the worlds large banks had more women on them (40-50% minimum) 15-20 years ago we wouldn't have had the global banking crisis. Group think is the enemy of innovation.Is there any indication that the current Commissions AREN'T already independent? I'm not sure we need doubling up of Commissions. The whole purpose of the current Commissions is to get an independent view, away from politicians and civil servants.
Because we live in a democracy.Why not give some power to all those bodies that are set up, and take the politics out of it
Ha ha, who do you think makes a lot of the ones that are made?Because we live in a democracy.
I don't want unelected, unaccountable quangos making such important policy decisions.
The Oireachtas.Ha ha, who do you think makes a lot of the ones that are made?
I didn't say I wanted to, but the reality is, they're doing it every day. What do you think top civil servants do?The Oireachtas.
Why would you want to give an unelected quango the power to frame and implement taxation and welfare policy?
I didn't say I wanted to, but the reality is, they're doing it every day.
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