Close without scheme map?

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Lorz

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We're in the process of buying a house in a new development and the builders solicitor doesn't yet have the Scheme Map. Our solicitor has advised that this is a crucial doc and we cannot close without it. The EA has stated that we should accept a letter of undertaking - as have the other purchasers (Apparently). Has anyone been in this situation before - all comments welcome.

Thanks.
 
We were buying a second hand house, and we had a similar situation. The owners of the house didn't get the scheme map when they close the sale, so they couldn't registered the property in the land registry. We only found out once our solicitor started working on the paper work. Because the other house had an old map, when this guy went to registry his propery, the land registry realized how different the maps were from his property to the rest of them in the same development, so now the whole state is involved in a boundary dispute. We were advised by our solicitors not to go ahead, so we pulled out...and back in the game!
 
Hi I'm a Legal Secretary and I worked on a housing estate ( we were acting for the builder) where there was no Land Registry approved scheme map. Most of the houses in the estate closed before we received the Land Registry approved Scheme Map. Most people accepted an undertaking and it was all good in the end.

You Solicitor is obviously protecting your interests as there is an element of risk but usually these matters come good.

Have many people closed on foot of the undertaking?
 
How many people put their hands in the fire :rolleyes: ?

I'd take your solrs advice on this one!
 
Given the choice between a solicitor (acting on my behalf) and an estate agent (with a vested interest in selling me somthing) for legal advice on conveyancing I think I know which one I'd choose.
 
It is not unknown for sales to close on foot of undertakings from solicitors to produce documents, including scheme maps. I have done so myself, though not happy about it. However, refusing to close without a scheme map is one of those areas where, if a solicitor refused, no colleague could justifiably accuse him\her of being unduly cautious.
 
Thanks for all the replies - While my gut reaction would be to listen to our solicitor's advice - I wonder if his interest lies elsewhere - the balance of the funds have been sitting in his account for the last week - earning HIM interest! I believe 2 others closed with the undertaking in lieu of the Scheme Map. The difficulty is that we were due to close last Friday and I had/have suppliers lined up for deliveries which I have now had to cancel. I was hoping to get a lot done over this weekend too! While our solicitor said that he would normally take an undertaking, his opinion was that a Scheme Map was too important to close without.

While the area has been prone to planning problems and boundary problems in the past, this is a new development so would it be ok to close?
 
While the area has been prone to planning problems and boundary problems in the past, this is a new development so would it be ok to close?


No, no, no, no, no, no, no,..........

1. This is not your money - its your lending institutions ( I assume) - its not yours to spend freely. Your solicitor has a personal undertaking out to them to make sure that the title is in order - taking an undertaking from the builder's solicitor is a calculated risk - it may be ok - it may not.
2. The solicitor can return the money to the lending institiution
3. Why is there no scheme map? Because there is an issue? Because there is a problem?
4. Why did other solicitors accept an undertaking - because they were put under pressure from their clients? Because they are young and foolish? Because they know more than your solicitor?

How would you feel in the future if your solicitor went ahead, completed the sale and then could not register the title because of issues with the scheme map and you could not sell 5 years down the line? Would you be glad that you'd been able to move in but furious with him for landing you in this mess or would you think fair play, I pushed it and what he said might happen has happened ...........

mf
 
Thanks MF1 - I'll wait until all is in order so. Incidentally about half of the balance (30k) is our money. We've been told that the delay is on the Land Registrys side. I have had dealings with the land registry in the past and have found them quite incompetent and the last thing I want is a boundary dispute or other problem. We hope to sell this house in the next 12months or so and so again, we don't want any problems.

When you ask Do the other solicitors know more than ours - would there ever be a time when it would be possible to accept such an undertaking?

"...could not register the title because of issues with the scheme map and you could not sell .." What is the benefit of an undertaking so? I had assumed that it was a guarantee from one legal profession to another confirming that all was in order and that when the scheme maps do arrive, they would be as expected.

Thanks again.
 
My own personal view is that conveyancing is largely being viewed by the consumer as an unnecessary, over expensive evil, with solicitors overcharging rampantly and doing nothing for the fees. The profession is also very crowded and there is a lot of competition for work. These factors in broad terms have the effect of downgrading the importance of getting Conveyancing right, the problems that can arise if it’s not done right and the consequences to both the consumer and the solicitor if the whole thing goes pear shaped.

I personally find the Land Registry very good to deal with – yes they do make mistakes but by and large when they are so advised they go to a lot of trouble to fix the problem – as they should as the Land Registry offer state guaranteed title. What the staff in the Land Registry say to me is that they are often dealing with ignorant arrogant builders and solicitors who present crappy scheme maps very late in the day and expect them to be accepted and processed yesterday.

“Would there ever be a time when it would be possible to accept such an undertaking?”
Undertakings are relatively straightforward things. My undertaking is my personal professional promise to do something. I should not give an undertaking in a situation where I have no control so in your circumstances without knowing the precise situation I cannot tell you whether (a) if I was the builders solicitor I should give an undertaking and (b) if I'm a purchasers solicitor, I should accept an undertaking. After nearly 20 years in the profession, I would be a lot slower and a lot more careful about undertakings than in my heady youth when I might not have seen quite so many disasters!!!

“What is the benefit of an undertaking so? I had assumed that it was a guarantee from one legal profession to another confirming that all was in order and that when the scheme maps do arrive, they would be as expected.”

I regularly am asked by my clients to give undertakings- sometimes my clients do not understand the nature of what it is they are asking me to do and they do get ticked off when I refuse. I had a client in much the same situation as you might be in 12 months – bought new, scheme map was wrong , Land Registry messed up also, she wanted to sell 18 months later, title still not registered and she wanted me to give an undertaking to proposed purchaser that all would be in order. I could not do that – I had not acted for her in the purchase – my advice was to get the problem fixed and then sell.

But no-one wants to wait - everything is to be done the day before yesterday..........

mf
 
Thanks MF - I really appreciate your advice on this matter. I don't have an issue with the solicitor's fee - I think his fee is quite reasonable for a professional service. I do agree this is important and I will wait until all is in order.

On the off chance that you have 5 mins to kill on the last day before the long week-end, would you mind looking at this post - you clearly know what you're talking about! Thanks again.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=23423
 
I feel that the Builders and in a hugh rush to get their purchase money for all the houses and sometimes they put items like scheme maps on the long finger. If a problem with a map turns up they have to get in touch with all the Solicitors for the people that have already bought and there has to be a rectification of all the properties that are wrong, these solicitors in turn have to contact their clients to sign forms etc and if there are 100 to 150 houses or more involved it can take time. There can be long delays in reselling. Some young and not so young solicitors go ahead even though the Law Society have lots of rules covering these items due to pressure from their clients - ie "everyone else has closed their sales why do I have a problem". It could be all sorted out if you are not selling for some years and then again it nay not!!
 
Thanks for all your help. I called the builder on Thursday to inform them that we had been ready to close for the last week and their solicitor was holding things up! Got a call at 9am this morning to confirm the scheme map was now there and they were ready to close. My solicitor didn't receive a call from their solicitor! Maybe we'll close today...
 
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