Children sick, employer says short notice for annual leave is unacceptable

Leper said:
Here are a few solutions:-
1. Use your annual leave or time worked up to care for your child.
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If you read the OP again, you'll see that that is exactly what they did. And the husband's employer is not happy with him doing that because of the short notice. And you can't really apply for holidays in advance to cover situations like illness.
 

A vaild question, I mean you're only a woman and obviously, the man's job is far more important yours .

I think the manager is being unreasonable. It's not like, God forbid, that one of your kids has an underlying illness - it was an isolated case. I'd bet he doesn't have children himself, as if he did, he'd know that coming to work is a lot easier than staying at home with a sick child, nevermind 2 sick children.

Phoning in sick is probably the pragmatic approach as you say, however, sadly, it may affect your husband's career prospects in the company if he gets a reputation for "being sick".
 
Employers should be as flexible as possible but it’s not unreasonable to expect employees to do what they can to put contingency plans in place. Your personal finances are not your employers concern.

TarfHead said:
+1

Even if you could afford it, having someone available at short notice, someone you trust, someone who will care for your children and not just 'mind' them, is a more difficult proposition.
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I didn’t say it was easy.

Firefly said:
A vaild question, I mean you're only a woman and obviously, the man's job is far more important yours .
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That was a disgraceful question by your employer. It’s none of their business what your husband is doing and the comment is very sexist.
 
Human beings are fallible. They break, get sick from time to time. Their child support network breaks down etc. Seems poor (and unrealistic) planning, and unsustainable if a company regardless of size can't survive someone being out. If that applies to the parents with no backup support for childcare, sick kids, it also applies equally to the company. Often childcare places won't accept sick kids.

If someone a good employee with good productivity, it seems strange to me, a company would ignore that to penalise them for being out regardless of their performance otherwise. Dragging sick people into an office, or stressing them out, to tick a box on a attendance sheet seems like "Cutting off the nose to spite the face". What cost to the company if the employee decides to leave and find somewhere else with a better leave policies.
 
Nobody is leaving jobs these days regardless of policies, there is no where to go! All that is fine and dandy in a good economy but the reality is very different.
 
wbbs said:
Nobody is leaving jobs these days regardless of policies, there is no where to go! All that is fine and dandy in a good economy but the reality is very different.
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Not in my sector. We are struggling to find people.
The same applies in much of the IT sector as well.
 
Theres a point for many where a job won't cover the cost of childcare and/or they can't work their childcare around the hours they have to work, or work is inflexible to make it impossible. I know a surprising number of couples like that, where one of them has had to quit work.

I'm in IT, and there's a lot of leeway given which is especially with women, to work part time, or from home on distinct projects, that otherwise wouldn't get done. A lot of them have experience, that isn't easily replaced.
 
Fair enough, the IT sector needs people as we keep hearing but it's one of the few areas.
 
Have you got the children in a creche, or a childminder? I was talking to another parent (her kids are adult or nearly so now) and when her kids were young, the childminder would take them if they were sick, once they were over the contagious part, or the part where they only want their mammy (or daddy). Creches don't seem to take children if there's anything at all wrong with them, which is why parents often switch to a childminder, especially when the kids get older and you are more experianced in when they really are sick, and when they are a little unwell.
 

This is very good advice.

Taking the "I know me bleedin' rights" approach will not help an employee's chance of promotion or advancement in the future.
 
Purple said:
Employers should be as flexible as possible but it’s not unreasonable to expect employees to do what they can to put contingency plans in place. Your personal finances are not your employers concern.
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They sort of are though. If your employer doesn't pay you enough to afford a nanny, they are. Not everyone can have a contingency plan in place, if you have no family and child carers don't take sick children, what can you do?
Any decent employer should understand this and be flexible. Telling an employee that the business interest must come before their children and family is just idiotic.
 
Follow up

Thanks everyone for all of the replies, it has been eye-opening to see all of the different viewpoints on this issue.

My husband decided that he wasn't going to let this one go and spoke to a senior manager about the issue today (calmly). There was acknowledgement that he had been upfront about the issue and that once the time was taken out of annual leave then the company should be able to manage without him for a day. (She has children herself so perhaps is more aware of family pressures than my husband's manager). We are hoping that this will be the end of it and are a bit relieved as my husband has never abused his sick leave and doesn't think that would be the way to go.

BTW, we have a wonderful childminder who is very practical and will take the children when they are not 100% (colds and flus etc.) but like most childminders will not take then when they are sick.
 
Magpie said:
They sort of are though. If your employer doesn't pay you enough to afford a nanny, they are.
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No, they are not. People are paid based on the value (economic or social) that they bring to their job. Their personal financial needs or outgoings are never the business of their employer and a persons pay rate should never be influenced by their financial circumstances.
 

I'm glad it has been resolved.
 
I have to say I am incredulous at some of the replies here.

I noticed somebody pointed out that it was not a company concern if the employee could not afford some terribly expensive childcare person willing to look after a sick child. Well this works both ways, as an employee one could also say it is not my concern if the company management need me to put in extra hours to help meet a deadline too. Inflexibility works both ways. If/ when things improve on the jobs front then the company will only have itself to blame when the better people leave and it earns a poor reputation as an employer.
If companies were to behave as some posters here suggest then they would only employ single workers with no children. I have no doubt that some people would welcome such a situation but they might change their minds when their own circumstances change.

Both companies and employees live in a real and imperfect world and a little flexibility goes a long way to keeping everyone happy.
 

Flexibility means taking things into account that aren’t your responsibility, i.e. allowing an employee to take time off at short notice or working late to help your employer meet a deadline. That still doesn’t mean such issues are the responsibility of the other party.
If the employee can’t work the extra hours all the time then the employer shouldn’t take that out on the employee and if the employee’s personal circumstances mean they keep having to take time off that shouldn’t become the employers problem.
 
Kind of Off-the-point comment (not intended at any poster on the subject here) :- When we had our first child my wife resigned her job (this was a prerequisite within two years of marriage back in the 1970's). We were reduced to one income, but that was the norm back then. She became a child-minder of another couple's child in our home. This continued with various couples for 20 years. I must say that Mrs Leper worked her butt off for ours' and others' children.

I must say though, that many never made any allowances for the child minder. No holiday pay was ever offered, Mrs Lep was usually 'docked' of Mum-of-the-year was handing her precious over to her Mum. Common decency is not so common among working mothers and working fathers. Junior was always delivered early and collected late, sometimes 10.00pm or thereabouts. But, Mrs Lep kept the smile, provided the service and returned 20 years later to fulltime employment for a break.

She keeps talking about people in her workplace condemning the child minder and complaining about child minding costs. Furthermoe, she reckons that many people don't have a Plan B in the case of illness of the child. At the risk of upsetting some she says that many modern day parents want to spend as little time as possible with their children. From what I see around me I think she is right.
 
Leper, fair play to Mrs. Leper for dealing with that! Out of interest (because we haven't dealt with it yet), what do you suggest as a plan B for a family, where neither mother or father can take time off, and there is no family around to help out? In the case of a sick child, I am presuming that friends with kids the same age don't want the bug in their house.
 
Leper, I don't have kids but have heard many parents moan about the cost of childcare but never the childminder. All parents really appreciate a good childminder. Your wife was a dream though.

I was sitting on an interview board a few years back when one of the board members had to leave with 2 candidates to interviews as his wife's car broke down and she wasn't going to make it to the childminders.

He told us if someone didn't collect the child she would be left outside. I don't believe that would have happened but from speaking to other parents she isn't alone in being strict on pick up times and rightly so.
 
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