Cert of Compliance - structural works in house

[LM26]

Hello,

My husband and I have sale agreed on our house. We did some structural work internally that involved taking out a load bearing wall and putting in a goal post steel structure 3 years ago.

As far as we are aware this is not a planning issue, however it is a building controls issue. I believe that once we get a Certificate of Compliance from an Engineer than the buyers solicitor should be satisfied - is this a fair assumption?

However am a bit more worried after ringing the council who said that we should have notified the Clerk of works beforehand and got his sign off - is the Certificate of Compliance going to be enough to satisfy the buyers solicitor does anyone know?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[Sconhome]

If the works are under the description of 'exempted works' you do not have to involve the planning office. Once the engineer satisfies the solicitor you are fine.

 

[mathepac]

... I believe that once we get a Certificate of Compliance from an Engineer than the buyers solicitor should be satisfied - is this a fair assumption? ...

There is no way of knowing what may satisfy the solicitor in question as we don't know what s/he asked for.

Did the prospective buyers get a structural survey done or what was it that high-lighted the issue with the wall?

 

[LM26]

Thanks for your replies.

Basically we are at sale agreed and the purchaser has not had a survey done yet.

What prompted our researching this issue was when our solicitor wrote to us after we returned a questionnaire to her about the house and indicated that we had removed a load bearing wall. She stated in her letter that any purchasers solicitor will request information about whether the works complied with planning and/or building regs.

Therefore we need to be able to satisfy this pre-empted request. As we are at sale agreed and it is a buyers market we want to ensure we get all the relevant information asap and forward to our solicitor so that it does not delay matters. So what I'm really looking to know is what exactly we need to get in order for the purchasers solicitor to be satisfied.

Thanks!

 

[danika05]

Hi.

We were on the other side of this a few months ago - the house we were buying had had a load bearing wall removed.

They provided a cert of compliance, but our surveyor, and our solicitor said it wasn't worth the paper it was written on as it wasn't issued by the architect who over saw the work (if one oversaw it at all!) Our lovely but fixated solicitor felt all chicken licken on it and had us freaked out. She wanted them to provide a structural engineers report on all the work done (there were a few other bits'n'pieces done.) As far as we were aware, a structural engineer would have had to be digging into the walls/ceilings etc to confirm the work was done properly. Neither us nor the sellers were keen to do this.

In the end we just said 'sod it', we told the solicitor we were satisfied, she had us sign a document saying she had warned us about it, and the sale went through.

So, I guess the lesson from all this is how anxious the solicitor/buyers are about the structural changes - if you're very keen to get this sale, and if they do get worried about it, you could undertake to get a structural engineer in to certify the work...

(- but you'll probably be fine with the certificates of compliance. And esp if you did have an architect involved at the time who could issue a cert.)

Hope that's some help.

 

[LM26]

Danika05 thank you for your reply. We have organised for an Engineer to certify the work with a Compliance Cert as we do not want to delay the sale and anticipate that the buyers solicitor will request this in due course. Hopefully this will satisfy them.

Thanks again for your feedback!

 

[mathepac]

... So, I guess the lesson from all this is how anxious the solicitor/buyers are about the structural changes ...

For me its a rather chilling reminder of just how blasé home-owners and purchasers are about structural changes to property in this country; a consequence of our "nod and a wink" planning processes, perhaps?

 

[mf1]

"Our lovely but fixated solicitor felt all chicken licken on it and had us freaked out."

This is the bit I particularly shuddered at. Solicitor attempts to advise clients. Clients laugh gaily................

I don't think its the nod and wink bit - its more the disinterest in or unwillingness to accept that the world is a fairly complex place and that things like (e.g.) building issues/health issues/contract issues are not simple and can't be shrugged off casually in the happy knowledge that "sure, it'll be grand"

mf

 

[danika05]

Hmmm... understand your horror at my post, I know how it sounds! But I have paraphrased a bit here what was behind our thinking! We were satified for various reasons that aren't relevant to this tread as to the standard of the work. (And ironically enough, it was areas of the house that no one was worried about that have turned out to be trouble...)

Our solicitors attitude was that any structural changes were bad. She'd only have been satisfied if she'd put in the rsj herself...

So, when it comes to the OP, the cert should be fine, unless they're using the same solicitor we did...

 

[onq]

"Our lovely but fixated solicitor felt all chicken licken on it and had us freaked out."

This is the bit I particularly shuddered at. Solicitor attempts to advise clients. Clients laugh gaily................

I don't think its the nod and wink bit - its more the disinterest in or unwillingness to accept that the world is a fairly complex place and that things like (e.g.) building issues/health issues/contract issues are not simple and can't be shrugged off casually in the happy knowledge that "sure, it'll be grand"

mf

I think its a bit of both, and a total lack of awareness of how building work should be certified as complete and compliant on the part of both builders and the general public.

As a rule of thumb:

• complex work should be carried out based on drawings.
• very simple work can be carried out under instruction.

Providing, that is, you have retained a professional who will certify the design of the work and a builder who will certify the built work.

Structural and Civil Consulting Engineers are competent to comment on all matters in relation to Structure, Part A of the Building Regulations.

Mechanical and Electrical Consulting Engineers are competent to comment on all matters in relation to Services and Energy Conservation, which affect several Building Regulations.

Architects issue the Opinion of Compliance with Building Regulations and attach what are called Schedule A Assurances to them including the two professionals named above, the Builders Cert and all Sub-Contractrs Certs.

This gives the overall assurance.

Builder removing a loadbearing wall without instruction and no professional on board = dodgy practice that happens all the time.

It is possible to certify the design of the works after the fact, but no professional worth his salf will do so without opening up works.

More importantly, the professionals assurances should always include a cert from the builder and subbies confirming the work itself was carried out and complies with the requirements of the relevant Building Regulations.

People expect warranties with their TVs Cars and Fridges.

You'd think they'd ask for a cert from the builder on completion for work costing thousands of Euro which could seriously damage their property if done incorrectly.

But no, "Sure its grand" <wink, wink> seems to be the mindset.

But all that's going to change with the new Registration of Architects.

Ho. Ho. Ho.

 

[dtwhaler]

Hi.

Our lovely but fixated solicitor felt all chicken licken on it and had us freaked out. She wanted them to provide a structural engineers report on all the work done (there were a few other bits'n'pieces done.) As far as we were aware, a structural engineer would have had to be digging into the walls/ceilings etc to confirm the work was done properly. Neither us nor the sellers were keen to do this.

We were on the wrong side of a similar situation with a new build a while back. It tunred out to be worse than originally thought. We were lucky that we listened to our solicitor and this gave us a very strong case when it was going to court.
If I were you I would listen to your solicitor no matter how frustrating. Its part of their job to make sure you're protected in these matters. They wouldnt do it for nothing..... think about it. If they just shrugged and said "Oh it'll be grand", they'd get paid quicker. Then if it all went pear shaped wouldnt you be annoyed that your solicitor didnt do their job right ?