Cape Verde

Re: cape verde/other country to invest

Hi thomsk, correct, i too have made some very good gains in property here over last 10 years and i am not running Dublin down i lke it here.Im just quoting official reports and figures.
But so many seem to state opinions about cv and other destinations on forums and i would be nice if a few official reports could be pointed to so people can make informed decisions.
but my interest in CV is personal , i am after a holiday home . if it rents or makes a gain so be it, but all im after is 4/5 months of winter sun.
Its a shame that the "pepper soup in Cape verde is spoiled by the inclusion of fresh Lobster, Prawns and Tuna caught locally each day,
Also i hear the Bars at night can be very busy, looks like i will have to put up with it all, with my fellow Irish buyers.
 
Re: cape verde/other country to invest

Carlos,

Like Bigrog -I would have my doubts about CV as it's the same distance from Dublin as Baghdad [3000 miles away/ New York nearly that] and the only thing I can make of it, is that its very mountainous to say the least. Not many beaches compared to other islands such as the Caribbeans etc. Mind you, Mogadishu has some lovely beaches, but then I remember...... "Black Hawk Down"..... ......made it seems very unappealing. The Chinese are buying up Africa for commodity supply such as oil, copper etc etc and giving big pays offs. What's CV got to offer them in return? It was only known in colonial times for being a sugar plantation and transit point for slaves?

Tourism aside, their economy has the same dynamic as Senegal and shares the same peninsula - 91st and 110th respectively for GDP's by IMF standards. As far as Chinese destinations to travel - where's your information for this and its list. Almost all of Europe is approved. I think the Chinese like the Japanese [in the 1970's] will concentrate on London, Paris and Rome- the favored destinations of all travelers from the Far East . Down the road, CV will be out of favour because it can't compete with the likes of the Caribbean, Canaries etc, from an overview of holiday accomdations see The Times Write Up. As mentioned earlier in recommendations, the Caribbean is as accessible to Europe as Verde, but more importantly its on the doorstep of the America's. [CV is to far away from all critical markets - it has no one nearby of any real value]. For the record I have no properties in any of these markets. Its to messy for me in terms of many renters etc but I do have one holiday home and keep it for the purpose of enjoyment only, without any other financial motive. I concentrate solely in commercial.

thomsk said:
Very good points, Carlos.....infact Dublin is in Europe so I won't invest in Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Baltics, Italy (infact ANY of Europe) as "fools are easily parted with their money"
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Thomsk. Where do you stick you money? Some interest bearing account being defeated by inflation? I'm not bullish on European Property but I certainly would not write it off....it's a big place you know...
 
Re: cape verde/other country to invest

Carlos said:
but my interest in CV is personal , i am after a holiday home . if it rents or makes a gain so be it, but all im after is 4/5 months of winter sun.
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If you want 4/5 months of winter sun then CV is as good as the next place I guess, but if you want a profitable investment then I can see no logic in it. Its so far away and inaccessible from Ireland that if you have problems down there its hard to get to.

Watch where the price of oil is going, this could lead to a recession in the airline industry and places like CV will be hit hard. Instead of people going for 1 week three times a year they will just go for one block of 3 weeks etc. That means less planes in the air and the more exotic locations will be the first to get cut back.

If you plan on lying in the sun in CV for 5 months yourself then good luck to you - wish I was in that position.
 
Re: cape verde/other country to invest

Cape verde is similar to Canarys. and an hour further south with no jet lag, no hurricanes or storms, pristine beaches, same year round temps as carribean, each island different, Sal is flat others lush and green others mountainous, Italians ,dutch and scandanaviens have traveled to cv for years.
True there are no direct flights from dublin to cv yet but neither are there any to Carribean.
Flights may come as demand rises ,no one thought ryanair or aerlingus would ever fly to Canerys more than twice a week ,
The report on chinas interest can be read on a semena online the CV national paper.
Also as i said earlier, all i want is informed debate not guesswork.
Im not trying to sell CV to any one, in fact as Sal is 34k long and 12k wide, there is limited supply of beachfront properties ( one being mine) and as two stories on major developments is only allowed it wont take long for building to cease.
 
Re: cape verde/other country to invest

Carlos said:
Cape verde is similar to Canarys. and an hour further south with no jet lag
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You mention its an extra hour flight from Canaries to CV. The last time I checked, concorde no longer travels. They're 1000 miles apart.

I'd love to own something there to enjoy it too, don't get me wrong. I'm sure its tranquil, wonderful, bueatiful etc - but I still don't think capital growth will turn out according to any bullish predictions. Have fun with it though - that should be your primary motive to purchase.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Travelling direct from Gatwick, the difference in flight time is 1h 30mins - 1h 40mins.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Alternatively, break the flight up by flying to lisbon(about half way) and enjoy a day or two there. Then there are daily flights to CV.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

budapest said:
Travelling direct from Gatwick, the difference in flight time is 1h 30mins - 1h 40mins.
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Which slides you into the long haul category, rather than medium haul to the Canaries. Long haul requires longer turn around times, more crew changes, larger aircraft etc. - Basicly higher overheads, so I can't see cheap and frequent flights going to CV anytime soon.

Are there many flights to CV for less than €400? Flights to The Canaries are generally available for <€200.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Was in tenerife last week - property prices are dropping there - and 2 people I got chatting to on different days said they are moving after a few years of living in canaries to......... Cape Verde.They reckon it has better potential - and have got fed up of masses in tenerife(and chaos). How many others are doing same I wonder??
Flight prices are bound to come down when more buildings are complete. Its all too new at mo though. Give it 2 or 3 years I reckon.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

TACV the national carrier anounced Friday 27th, flights to Sal and Santiago nonstop Starting today 29/10/2007. These flights will soon continue to Brazil also. They are weekly and from £396 return. With Austreus already flying from airports in the uk and other airlines from europe the price could come down.
Sorry for confusion in earlier post, i based my flight times on my personal experience of 4hrs 10 /20 mins to Lanzarotte and the 5hrs 30 mins to cv.
I accept that these flights no longer go from Dublin with Falcon as they did last winter, but they may be reinstated as more rooms become available a source informed me.
All i can say is i feel ppositive with all that is happing at the moment.
I bought over 2 years ago and then CV was even more obscure and distant, now, people seem to have opinions on many destinations that they would never of thought about.
As Ryanair say "even bad publicity is still publicity"
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

A bar-owner in tenerife commented that the cost of a pint in CV was 70c extra, saying it might put off holiday-makers.
Now those who judge a good holiday on cheap booze/sun/late night discos galore(ie 18-30 las americas/ ibiza crowd) may be those who would stay away.
And many of those 18-30 yr types also seem to see fun holidays as places where you can get wrecked cheaply/throw-up everywhere and be a noisy,aggressive, vandalising d***head. They might also be motivated to holiday where cheap airlines fly to.
Good news in my opinion.Means the more mature 30+ yr olds wil go there.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Being a mature 30+ person myself thomsk what would 70c on a pint equate to. it can be 5.50 a pint here in central dublin. I prefer a g&t myself.
god i am maturing, may be i need a week in Ibiza to show me what its all about, as my teenage daughter keeps reminding how old i seem.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Well what I neglected to say Carlos - is that if the 18-30 tear ibiza and the canaries apart, it means us 30 somethings have more room to go mad in CV !
And €3.50 a pint? €12 for a bottle of gin duty free. Should be enough of us raving til 6 in the morning. Who knows, Ronnie wood/rod stewart might get pads there. Ha.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Both Carlos and Thomask are doing there best to sell Cape verde but this was all done before here:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=37843&page=7&highlight=CAPE+VERDE

I like Fionita's comments:
I happen to sell property in Cape Verde. Or should I say, I have it to sell, but I dont endorse it. Why?

Its a dump. Lethal sand storms for months on end, serious water problems and electricity is like something from the dark ages - actually it may as well be for all the times its actually working. The islands are soooo small and as clients who said to me it was a waste of time, hassle and money hiring a car as they had the whole island covered in 25 mins.

The price of property has actually doubled since last summer, but you are not getting nowhere the value for money you once were. If anyone has bought in the last year or 2, now is the time to sell. Resales don't exist out there.

Flights are a nightmare and very expensive and you try finding a tour operator who will organise a decent trip for you. There is no established tourism market there, no matter what you are told. Up until recently, you had to fly from dublin to either paris or amsterdam to get a flight down and sometimes with a change in Spain too. You can fly direct from UK now - but does the moon have to be pink or something to get one - not sure about that.

If a client wants it, then who am I to judge them. But be careful. It will never turn into a tourist destination - what is there to tour????
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

Who is to say that I don't sell property in Cape Verde? Who does Fionita work for? No one in their right mind who is a seller of ANYTHING tries to dissuade people from buying their product. ( Apart from Barry Scott - "silit bang" or whatever it's called. "BANG - and B. Scott is gone !).
I would have a sneaky suspicion that she's selling property alright - but it aint in CV.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

thomsk said:
No one in their right mind who is a seller of ANYTHING tries to dissuade people from buying their product.
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I don't wish to blow my own trumpet but my own accountancy business includes company formation services for customers. I always make a point of only proceeding to form a company when requested to do so by a customer if the client is 100% sure they want it, and if I am satisfied that they need it. I do this because I have seen countless cases where people have gone ahead and formed companies only to find later that they don't need them. I know of plenty other accountants who operate with similar caution in relation to forming companies, in fact I would go so far as to guess that most accountants do this. The bottom line that a business will only prosper if it looks after its customers, even if it means discouraging some customers from buying services/products that are unsuitable for them. In the long run, nobody wins from having dissatisfied customers.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

I would buy in CV based on that conversation alone it will save you a trip there and the money saved could be spent on the extra €0.70 a pint extra you will be paying.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

That old chestnut again.
If you notice that the next poster was myself asking, as always, for Fionitas sources for her wild info in relation to cv a year ago.
Funny she has only good things to say about Bansko which i have no insight into so i couldnt comment and she never posted back her sources .
People can come on forums once or twice and make claimes about anything.
i am a member of a few CV forums and only post info based on published facts, after i can confirm them ,some may be wrong but i will endevour to clarify all i can.
CV may not be Paradise to all but each to their own
I wish all well in there future projects and funny enough 25 years ago as i sat on the deck of a gullet sipping a beer off the coast of Bodrum a fellow traveller said
"YES IT MAY BE NICE BUT IT WILL NOT CATCH ON LIKE SPAIN".
I feel ,The majority of Irish over the centuries have become seasoned and unique travellers, we seem to embrace the culture of a country, enjoying its pleasures while infusing our own Irishness with theirs. We dont want to ghettoise ourselves but integrate, so as for myself ,if i want Sun sea sand and heinz ketchup i will head for certain parts of spain, turkey etc which i do 3/4 weekends a year and I enjoy it.
But some times we need the extraordinary, its a big world and i still want to visit Oz, and South America, hopefully on 3 hr flight from Sal in 2010
As for dissatisfied customers even solicitors cant keep everyone happy all of the time, even major banks.
 
Re: Cape Verde or other country in which to invest

It seems to me that sometimes the purpose of posting is sometimes to keep the thread at the top of the page and to wip up a frenzy and keep people talking about a particular place.

Cape Verde in my opinion is a poor location to invest you money for the following simple reasons:

1. Over supply of new builds will mean that any tourist will have ample apartments to chose from when going there meaning a low number of weeks when your property is rented and hense a poor rental return.

2. Any place where there is difficulty getting reasonably priced direct flights will struggle because lets face it the majority of people want to get away quickly without the hassle of having to change flights and also have to pay over the odds for the flights.

3. People have said that property has doubled there in the last number of years. Ok maybe the cost of new builds (ie the price the builders are charging) has doubled but what is the resell market like for the properties that investors brought 2 years ago. My guess would be small to non-existant. Most buyers will want to buy off plans and pay for it in 18/24 months time and enjoy the so called price increase's while still not have payed for the property in full

4. The day you buy is the day you sell. Who will want to buy your apartment over the 1000's of other similar apartments.

5. No/poor rental income = no/poor return on your investment. Why will people want to buy a product that is producing a poor return.

6. I would love to know what the get out plan is for all these investors

7. There will be plenty of agents selling property there that will tell you that there is no problem flipping these property. That is until the time actually comes to doing it and then these agents are no where to be seen.

People need to stand back and smell the roses.

Galway boy
 
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