cant take my holidays?

Hi all,
Heres my situation. Working in software development, based temporarily in northern ireland. Travel daily up and back and the team is small enough, 8 of us.

5 weeks ago, booked 1 week and 1 days holidays starting next monday, im travelling away down the country in ireland with some friends.

We had a project review last week and it was decided that as the workload is increasing as we near the next deadline we are to stay up here overnight on weds and thurs nites in order to work late, this pi$$ed me off, im fed up on this project as it is.

My social life and spare time is at a minimum, i hardly know my other half. Weve all made huge sacrafices, partner and myself are FTB's and weve had to go through the whole process with one of us absent for most of it, as it is viewing properties consist of herself and her dad and a digital camera. all meetings with EA's and banks is done by her as much as possible.

However, this is fine, expenses more than cover it, were pretty well compensated, money only goes so far though...

My problem is that my manager said to me, look its my job to ask you will you not go on holidays as we need you here for the week after the deadline (my week away).

Now if I had booked a holiday abroad, i would be flying out and they wouldnt be able to ask me this, but because they all know im staying local, then i potentially wont lose the costs of flights etc, however, my mates have all booked off the same period and we only do this once a year, is it really his job to ask me to not go on holidays?


Some background:
There is no formal way of approving holidays in my company, we simply submit a holiday request form but never hear back if it has or hasnt been approved, we just take it that if we hear nothing then it is approved.

Now where do i stand that 1 and 1/2 weeks before i head off, my boss is asking me not to go, on one hand i dont want to just up and leave responsibilities behind, but on other hand i really want AND NEED this break.

its at the stage where i hate coming into work each morning just thinking about it. Were all behind on our deadlines as the clients own part of the development team keeps constantly changing the design environment.

Im so close to asking him to remove me from the project and send me back to Dublin, i dont want to jeopardise my future in the company, but i feel ive already sacraficed enough to travel to and from work up here, everyday since march this year.

Im beginning to not be able to stand some of my colleagues as the pressures build, there are 7 weeks left up here however and if i can get this week away, ill happily suffer on through last 6 weeks when i get back.

I probably sound like a moan, but having never been in this situation before I need your advice/thoughts.

thanks guys.

It's a tricky situation, but isn't annual leave a privilege rather than a right in the sense that although you are entitled to holidays, it should be at a mutually agreed time, hence the need to have leave "approved" in advance albeit in an informal manner as you describe. You need to consider your options carefully - as you said, you don't want to jeopardise your position in the organisation. Have you tried explaining your position to your boss - i.e. stressful situation, fact that you're trying to buy a house and that you need a break from the travel etc. Is there any way you could be officially on leave but on call or available to answer queries etc while away?

As you said, if you were going abroad, they probably wouldn't ask you to cancel your leave. Maybe explain that you will have to meet all the hotel costs etc as your group won't be able to find someone to go in your place at such short notice, even if thats not strictly true?

As a manager I would not ask this of an employee in your circumstances unless it was an emergency and absolutely necessary. With the sort of notice you have given it is not acceptable that you cannot be accommodated.
Given the circumstances you have outlined if I was you boss I would be offering you a bonus of two weeks pay to stay as it would be necessary as a result of my incompetence.

wish i was working for you... you dont need a .NET developer by any chance?!?

Explain your situation to your boss and then ask him, if its impossible for you to take the holiday then how can he make it worth your while. Seems like you've put him in the driving seat when in fact he is the one looking for somethign from you. These things happen though and have happened to me in the past.

afraid not

I would suggest that you "do a deal." Say you can stay for the week on the condition that you get another week off at a date you specify. Your boss will probably agree. That way you are seen as being reasonable without being a doormat.

also work in the software game and i don't know if I have just been beaten down but I have come to expect that this is the nature of this business.

My recommendation would be to offer to stay up on the Mon and tues night, work wed and take thurs and Fri off to meet up with your friends and agree when the real week of holidays can be taken.

this way you are showing a willingness to compromise. Asking for a bonus etc can look like a gun to the head and may label you as not being focused on the project / company goals

i think you'd be mad to give up your holidays - in the software/computers business these things always come up - it's not a once off and it will happen again and you'll come under the same pressure again and again from bosses who just roll over and let scope creep affect every body else.

something like this should not jeopradise you future - if it does then your boss is the one that should go and not you.

you say you have 1.5 weeks to go to hoilidays - offer to stay up a couple of nights next week and burn the candle at both ends - make sure all your code/docs etc are all up to date and checked in - i wouldn't offer any more than that. the fact that you're staying in Ireland is immaterial - you and all your friends have booked it all off together.

what if it was a few weeks time and you were just going down the country to the Galway races or some other event ?

Clearly it seems the boss needs you and i know the business in design/development being in it for the last 7 years. Just put your foot down - Poor time management (whos fault is that now? yes the boss) and you have fulfilled the request with no rejections to it. Clearly your a doormat and you need to be firm and say sorry but i dont think so. Its all arranged etc. I feel like giving you a slap and say wake the f*&k up and stand on your own f*&king feet you f&%king This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language licker. (Sorry for the poor French but you know what i mean)

well, I think the first reply is correct, holiday timing are at the discretion of the employer, in my last job, we had 3 weeks assigned for summer and a week at XMas leaving just 2 days that we could choose to take off during the year, if business needs insist the company can even cancel booked holidays, I had to do so once and we did not compensate the employee for their paid foreign holiday as we had such eventualities covered in policy.
not a nice place to be, everyone needs their breaks, best thing is to haggle some sort of upside for yourself and learn from the experience, hopefully it will p1ss when you were supposed to have your break

slave1 said:

I had to do so once and we did not compensate the employee for their paid foreign holiday as we had such eventualities covered in policy.

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So the company had no interest in the long-term loyalty and commitment of their employees? Not a good medium or long-term policy.

So the company had no interest in the long-term loyalty and commitment of their employees? Not a good medium or long-term policy

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dont be so judgemental without knowing all the facts, the employee in question booked their holiday in a time period where holidays were not allowed - year end - and did not seek permission in advance, there's two sides to every story, can't say I was a happy camper but business needs were that we need full crew and noone was allowed to take holidays at that time, well known by all

slave1 said:

dont be so judgemental without knowing all the facts, the employee in question booked their holiday in a time period where holidays were not allowed - year end - and did not seek permission in advance, there's two sides to every story, can't say I was a happy camper but business needs were that we need full crew and noone was allowed to take holidays at that time, well known by all

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I was commenting on the facts that you gave. If there was more to the story you should have been clear in your first post.

Just to be clear on the law on this one....

The Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 (Sections 19-22) set out the law on annual leave.

Annual leave is neither a privilege nor a matter for employer and employee to agree what is mutually acceptable. Annual leave is an entitlement/right of employees in Ireland but the timing of your annual leave is a matter upon which only your employer decides. This appears to be the question involved here.

Before making such a decision on who can/cannot take annual leave, Section 20 of the law says the employer is obliged to take into account the opportunities the employee has for rest and recreation, your family situation/responsibilities, etc.

If your employer is asking you not to take this time off - then there is an acceptance by them that you are scheduled to take this time off. In other words, you already have permission to take this time off but they are asking you to reconsider. While there may be no formal indication from them that you have been granted this annual leave - asking you to reconsider implies to me there is an understanding by them you will be off for this period.

It appears from your post that you are under stress and time off work for rest and recreation would certainly be beneficial. In addition, given your impending house purchase, etc. you also have certain family responsibilities.

The decision ultimately, about what you choose to do is up to you. The most important thing to remember here is your employer has not refused your application for annual leave - they have simply asked you to reconsider your decision to take time off.

The above should set you straight on your rights. Sitting at a desk seething because you were scheduled to be off and disapointed because you've had to cancel plans is not a productive use of anyones time nor is it good for your mental health.

I suggest you remain polite but firm and say you are unable to change your plans and stick to your guns.

Let us know how this turns out.

The best advice yet on this thread. We have very few breaks ffrom our working lives.