Can't attend work on account of religion.

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Re: Cant attend work on account of religion.

redstar, I think MandaC meant another job else where not a change of career.
I aussume this guy is a Muslim, I do remember local mosque's being busy places on a friday. How do other Muslims cope? If there is no legal obligation to keep him and he worked for me, then I'd give him the road as he can't fulfill his duties.
 
Im still of the opinion that even if fridays are important - surely he could get up early, and go and pray at 7am or something, then come to work, religious obligations satisfied, or alternatively go after coming back to dublin on a friday evening.

i just dont believe for a minute that every person in this religion is free from 1-2pm on a friday to worship.
 
DavyJones
The phrase "I think that if the person needs to get a job that suits their life style a bit better" sounds like a career change to me

Surely the same type of job/similar tasks/duties elsewhere would still bring the same problem ?
 
truthseeker said:
i just dont believe for a minute that every person in this religion is free from 1-2pm on a friday to worship.
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I don't know...I've heard Scientologists have to watch Top Gun every Tuesday at 3pm. It can play hell with rostering.
 
I think Friday at noon is the critical time for Muslims. The school in Ballyhaunis Co Mayo lets muslim pupils leave school to go to prayer service.
I have worked in places with muslims before and never experienced any problems - but the job I was in did not involve travel more than a couple of miles.
Like an earlier person said - there must be Muslims in plenty of jobs that mean they are not able to get to a mosque on Friday - what do they do?
Also - the poster who mentioned Catholics and getting to mass on holydays - many if not all churches have evening masses and morning masses. There are that many churches in Ireland it would be easy to get mass on a holyday somewhere - so it's not a fair comparison.
Is there a requirement to pray in a mosque on Friday? Can they just pray on their own?
 
All very interesting replies. What I meant by Friday being relevant is that its relvant for the persons religion. The employer is not really willing to accomodate any longer. They feel its getting in the way of productivity and effecting staff morale in general.

As regards being flexible, dont think that this is really an option. Another guy plays badminton every Thursday night and is not willing to do all the Thursday stay over's either, though is willing to do his share.

As regards finding another job, person does not want to leave.

Anyway, will post an update.
 

Thats my point - Catholics have no problem because of the availability of churches, frequency of masses.
Muslims do not have as much choice, so its harder to accommodate them.
 
My point is, if you take on a job that clearly involves travelling throughout ireland, but you need to be in dublin on Friday lunch time, then you cant really do that particual job and may need to find something located in Dublin for the full week.

In reality, economy is starting to bite the employer, (like everyone else) and to keep up with competition, have to offer better service, better response time, better trained staff, etc. there is no point in having someone on call in Dublin if a call comes in from Athlone. If a client needs a service call on Friday in Ballygobackwards, its not enough anymore to try and push the call back to Monday. When the calls come in, the staff just have to go. Otherwise they could be all out of a job.

Hopefully it will work out!
 
redstar said:
Thats my point - Catholics have no problem because of the availability of churches, frequency of masses.
Muslims do not have as much choice, so its harder to accommodate them.
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Did the Prophet state that people of his persuasion should be Dublin-bound Friday afternoons?
 
I was in Dubai last year during Ramadam and seen truck drivers pulling into the side of the road and praying, location didn't matter (I know we don't know the religion of the OP work colleague). I would hope that the law supports all workers equally and that they'll have to do their fair share of Friday runs
 
The person in question needs to prioritise, is it more important that they attend the Friday prayer session or that they earn a living?

Can they not find out the location of other prayer services on Fridays and attend the nearest if they are away with the job? There are surely more mosques than just in Dublin.
 
Truthseeker, you might have a point and it might just be that the employee does not want to bother having to look up other places /

By saying, no I have to be in Dublin Friday lunch time, he has more or less got away with not having to make his own arrangements.

Might be just chancing his arm and will just have to make his own arrangements once its confirmed that he is employed on the same terms and conditions as the other employees in the same positon.

I just wanted to check what the legalities were, and that would appear - what ever is in the contract of employment will apply, irrespective of religious commitments.

thanks!
 
That was more than a bit cheeky! Quite innovative of the employee, don't you think, suggesting a completely inequitable solution, which also reduces down his working week time commitment?
Hopefully the contract is quite clear on working hours and commitments, which need to be clearly pointed out.
I think care needs to be taken that nothing in any way discriminatory is said, and that a record is kept of every conversation, and what it consists of however. Just in case. And if it comes to it, that any disciplinary procedure is followed to the letter, as per the company protocol.
Post back please!! It'll be interesting to see what happens here..

Nicola
 
MandaC said:
I just wanted to check what the legalities were, and that would appear - what ever is in the contract of employment will apply, irrespective of religious commitments.

thanks!
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If you believe this will go down a legal route, be careful with your assertion above, it may not be that clear cut.

Employee has offered alternative working conditions, and work conditions have got tighter lately due to economic downturn suggesting "custom and practice" has changed forcing employee to make a stance on religious grounds.
 
In Ireland , where we have plenty of churches , catholics can easily usually attend Mass on holidays and even on Sundays. But even in the Public Sector, one attends church , secondary to the demands of the rosters.However , we have always had Muslims working here, particularly in the medical profession and I have never heard that they had to attend the mosque on Friday. Like Catholics , I am almost certain , that in an ideal world they attend on their day of worship but equally like Catholics, if through unavoidable circumstances, they can't ,then as far as I know, they can pray elsewhere.
If one was that devout, why would one come to work and live in a Christian country?
Someone is chancing their arm and isn't it very handy not to be on the road in Friday traffic!
Sorry, I'm being cynical, but I've seen a fair share of Catholics try to pull fast ones like this.
 
Why not have him agree that he will travel on Thursday/Friday if there is a mosqu available

See here [broken link removed]

It pretty much covers every Irish city.
It will prevent him from arguing that he is being discriminated against although it still restricts where he can travel to. But it may aleviate the tension between the co workers and avoid the legal route.
If he refuses when there is a mosque near where he has to go then he is just being awkward.
 
Id be inclined to phone up the equivalent of the parish priest at the local mosque and ask exactly what the situation is regarding congregational worship on a friday, id bet you'll find that its not an absolute requirement and that if he missed the odd friday here and there he would still be welcome to heaven or whatever the place is.

its very easy to claim 'my religion' because if anyone disputes it the person in question can start making noise about discrimination. Leaving religion out of it for a minute, would it be acceptable for one employee to refuse to do certain hours because they wanted every friday lunchtime in dublin to do some kind of personal task - no.

I fully agree with Brianne - if one was that devout why live and work in a Christian country?
 
I simply would not tolerate this as an employer.

From the sounds of it, the employee is not adhering to the T&Cs of their contract - if they are not permanent or still on probation etc, and can't come to a mutually agreeable compromise - get rid of them.

If they are permanent advise them they are in breach of their contract and issue a formal warning - any reason not to follow the above route?
 
I do know that religous Jews make a point of telling their employers of certain days of the year they will require holidays and if they have to leave early on Friday they make sure their employers know this prior to employment. I've seen this happening in Ireland and the UK. I am sure this Post should not become a religous hatred matter but perhaps they will next want to travel to areas where they can only get Halal meat sandwiches as well. I would say that in this case the employer would be within their rights to tell the person to find another job.
 
The person has been in the job now over a year, but the issue has only come up now and again because it does not happen every Friday. My friend is not prepared to do the job someone else is paid to do.

Neither is he prepared to mollycoddle anyone (it will ultimately be his head on the line) and just wants everyone to handle the calls as and when and where they come in and for everyone to just get on with the job in hand. My friend would be a bit direct (as would I) in my thinking about this - this is your contract, this is the job, so I wanted to get other opinions on it.

I dont think the employer is out of line in trying to enforce the terms of the contract.


Thanks for the responses.
 
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