Cannot buy Irish annuity because I’m non-resident

J

JamesUK

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I am currently resident in the UK. When I previously lived and worked in Ireland, I participated in a company pension plan. After the company closed, the pension plan was wound-up, and my fund was transferred to a Buy-Out Bond in an Irish-based pension company, with the intention of purchasing an annuity at retirement age.

I’ve now reached retirement age, but after recently submitting an application for an annuity, the pension company will not sell me an annuity because I am not resident in the Republic of Ireland. I have not been informed about the reason for this rule, though I believe it also applies in most other pension companies in Ireland, if not all.

Since taking out the policy, the pension company never informed my that this non-residency rule had come into effect. Yet, they wrote to me at my UK address about two months before my 65th birthday, to explain my pension options and included an application form.

It seems particularly unfair to deny me my pension annuity now, and I would consider it reasonable for the pension company to make an exception in my situation, and for others in a similar situation.

Meanwhile, I'm unsure about the status of my pension fund. It’s legally mine, but I’m denied access to benefits from it.

I’m an Irish citizen, and since moving to the UK, I have maintained financial links with Ireland:
  • I have an active current account and credit card account in an Irish bank.
  • I have an Irish property, on which I pay property tax.
  • I have Irish income, which I declare in my annual Irish tax return, and on which I pay Irish tax.
As an Irish citizen, do I have rights which invalidate this non-residency rule?

Is there a relevant Irish organisation which might advise me on making a strong case to the pension company for an exemption from this non-residency rule?
 
Perhaps pensionsombudsman.ie ? (Though I believe he deals more with PRSAs). Pension Authority as an other option.



Standard Life is a British company but operating in Ireland. Perhaps transfering the Buy-Out-Bond to them or buying an annuity from them might solve your problem?
 
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Thanks Merowig for your suggestions.

By posting here, I’m hoping to learn more about why pension companies have introduced this rule, and how it affects my consumer rights as an Irish citizen (or an EU citizen).

I’ve considered writing to the company in question to make a personal appeal, and if that fails I could write to the Regulator (the Central Bank), and finally to the Ombudsman. My concern with following that route is that it may take a very long time to achieve a resolution.

As for using a British pension company operating in Ireland, they are all regulated in Ireland by the Central Bank, which is why they are probably all obliged to follow the non-resident rule.

Perhaps the Central Bank requires them to introduce some new process or procedure for non-residents, so all pension companies in Ireland may eventually support citizens who have emigrated (permanently or not). I suppose I could survey all of them by phoning to see what their current non-resident policy is.

Obviously, I would prefer if a choice was available, e.g. to compare annuity rates, and the company in question in currently one of the best in that respect.
 
Would they allow you to use the value in the pension to buy a UK based annuity?
 
This as we so often point out is an Irish website.

May I suggest an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Give the pension company the address of your irish property as your residential/correspondence address.

Problem solved.
 
Seagull, that sounds attractive, because annuity rates are higher in the UK.

However, I’ve been informed by the pension company that you cannot transfer benefits of a Buy-Out Bond -- also called a Personal Retirement Bond (PRB) -- to a Personal Pension Plan (PPP).

There would need to be a UK occupational pension to which it could be transferred, but I don’t have one.
 
cremeegg,

I cannot deny considering an Irish solution, as you suggest.

I don’t know if you’ve recently tried changing address with a bank or other financial institution. It’s quite difficult, and some require documentary evidence of the new address, i.e. a recent bank statement and utility bill. There are no utilities in my name for my Irish property.

Apart from that, the pension company require a certified bank statement for the account into which the pension will be paid by EFT, which means changing my address at my Irish bank also.

Currently, every Irish institution I deal with has my UK address. Very messy if the address change process fails.
 
cremeegg said:
This as we so often point out is an Irish website.

May I suggest an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Give the pension company the address of your irish property as your residential/correspondence address.

Problem solved.
Click to expand...

True - though the pension company might ask for proof of address - like a utility bill - in that case ask revenue to confirm your PPS number or any other letter from the government - this normally would be sufficient.
In any case - shop around for annuities - as you might find a better deal.

Am actually glad I read about this problem - I am non-Irish - and I don't plan to retire here - so a Buy-Out Bond looks to be even less attractive than it was before.
 
JamesUK said:
Seagull, that sounds attractive, because annuity rates are higher in the UK.

However, I’ve been informed by the pension company that you cannot transfer benefits of a Buy-Out Bond -- also called a Personal Retirement Bond (PRB) -- to a Personal Pension Plan (PPP).

There would need to be a UK occupational pension to which it could be transferred, but I don’t have one.
Click to expand...

Can you transfer your Irish Buy Out Bond to a British Buy Out Bond?
 
Merowig, I'm currently registered at Irish revenue with my UK address.

Don't know for sure if an Irish Buy Out Bond can be transferred to a British Buy Out Bond, but I suspect not, as it was originally intended for purchasing an Irish annuity.
 
You can change your address as well with Irish revenue...

Alternatively just ask your pension company if you can transfer it to a UK bond and you will know for sure.
Perhaps you need to transfer it first to another Irish bond provider which allows a transfer to a UK one? In that case changing the address with Revenue or a bank seems to be easier (though UK annuities might be more attractive and might be worth the hassle)

Transfers to the UK seem to be possible:
[broken link removed]
"Transfers between buy out-bonds and UK Statutory Schemes (e.g. NHS), UK
exempt approved occupational pension schemes and UK personal pension arrangements and vice versa are permissible if such bonds/schemes/arrangements permit such transfers."

http://europeanpensions.ie/feature/buy-bonds/
"As an EU citizen, you are entitled to open a pension plan in another European Country and transfer your existing retirement benefits to this scheme. In certain EU jurisdictions you can access up to 30% of the transfer fund as a Pension Commencement Lump Sum from Age 50."
 
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Merowig,

Thanks for those links, which I may investigate separately, and open a separate thread if necessary.

Currently, I don’t plan to either change my address (or pretend to), or to move the pension fund to the UK.

I need to be clear about the reason for my original post, which is to learn about why pension companies in Ireland have introduced the non-resident rule, and how it affects my consumer rights as an Irish citizen (or an EU citizen).

As an Irish citizen, do I have rights which invalidate this non-residency rule?

Is there a relevant Irish organisation which might advise me on making a strong case to the pension company for an exemption from this non-residency rule?
 
As partially already previously stated

The Pensions Authority http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/pensions/the_pensions_board.html explains what they can do for you
The Pensions Ombudsman
Citizensinformation
European Consumer Centre Ireland
consumerhelp.ie

Though I wouldn't expect a fast resolution if you try to force it that way.


Personally I would just check how to transfer the bond to the UK and buy a UK annuity which could be most likely of much better value - and having "let's pretend I am an Irish resident" as Plan B.
 
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Thanks Merowig,

Indeed, that’s a useful list of organisations I can approach for help or advice.

I agree that going that route means a resolution or exemption may be a long way off, if ever.

The transfer of Bond to UK option is quite a technical discussion, which is best done in a separate thread.

Plan B is also a separate topic, and my investigation of this has already revealed a few obstacles.
 
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Hi James

The problem might be in the sales process. For addresses outside of Ireland, the regulations says:
  • Sale and solicitation of the business must take place in Ireland.
  • Sold via an IFA regulated by the IFR.
I'm an advisor and I don't know what the IFR is or how you get regulated by them. I had a read of my own Central Bank authorisation and there is no mention of the IFR, nor is there any mention on their website.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
Thanks SBarrett,

I would have thought IFR used to mean “Irish Financial Regulator”, though for some years now financial web sites are required to state “Regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland”.

The original source of the pension fund was an Irish company pension, which was wound-up. In 2006, the Buy Out Bond sale “took place in Ireland”, for which I used an Irish address. In 2007, I informed the pension company about my UK address. In hindsight, while that address update was correct, it may have been unnecessary, and a mistake.

I still actively use my Irish bank account, where my UK address is also registered. The pension application form states "For all EFT payments we need a certified copy of your bank statement dated within the last 6 months." That’s ok, as I wish to have the pension paid into my Irish bank account. So, my registered address is the same with both the pension company and bank, but it’s a UK address.
 
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