Can a FTB get cash back four times?

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cheirin123

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Can the 4 switch plan be used for a new mortgage? I just received approval from PTSB for €450k / €9k cashback. Should I also apply to EBS and BOI now or will I have to drawdown the mortgage first and then try switch?
 
Absolutely , it's the same process, just don't draw-down the first mortgage until you have the others in place. It is the same process because you are applying for a new mortgage so all the banks will need the same information from you like salary certs , bank statements, proof of savings etc. If you have all the paperwork in place for one bank you should certainly use it for other banks. If it's a first time mortgage then you will not have previous mortgage statements so the banks will not look for them. If you draw-down your first mortgage without having the others in place then you are in bother because PTSB and BOI ans Ulster bank all have minimum requirements regarding time with your previous mortgage lender which makes the quick switches impossible. If you had 4 first time mortgage offers in place you can switch them all because the mortgage is valid for 6 months leaving you loads of time to complete all the switches. At €9000 a time it's absolutely well worth doing. Ill even do it for you for €2000 a time ;)
 
cheirin123 said:
@RedOnion , do you agree that it's possible on above basis? (Not doubting you Sean Og but just want to make 100% sure before I apply to 2/3 other banks)
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Hi, you'd need to have your solicitor onboard.
You're applying for a new mortgage, but actually switching. There are documents the bank would expect to see, such as notice of sale letter from estate agent, rather than redemption figures from another bank, so the solicitor might be passing them documents that aren't relevant.
 
Sincere thanks to all for the information provided and for sharing experiences, really great work and congrats to all the successful switchers. We're first time buyers and are already quite well progressed with a number of banks in terms of application/approval, so seems like we are well positioned to consider this approach. Still a little uncomfortable on the legality of this that I was hoping people could help clarify.

In the switcher example (with bank A, switching to B->C->D), can it be considered fraudulent/illegal to complete and sign a mortgage application form for bank C and D confirming that you hold a mortgage with bank A (with statement etc) but when it comes to drawdown, you no longer hold a mortgage with Bank A, but now have a mortgage with bank B/C instead?

Similarly, in the FTB example (i.e. get a FTB mortgage with Bank A, then switch from Bank A -> B -> C), can it be considered fraud to sign the mortgage application form for banks B and C as a FTB but at the point of drawdown, to be switching instead?

In both cases, this appears to be misrepresentation from the borrower given the details in the signed application form have changed at the point the transaction is completed. If the switcher was completely up front with the bank, they would not be accepted due to the minimum amount of time required with previous lender, so not disclosing the change in circumstances specifically to get the cash back offer seems like something which the bank could hold the borrower liable for given the signed mortgage application which would then be fraudulent.

In addition, is the FTB scenario potentially more troublesome given the change in status could be seen as more clearly deceitful whereas for switching, it is just the bank that has changed?

I'm assuming that the 'get out of jail' card on this, is that it is up to the banks to re-complete their due diligence at the point of drawdown (should they wish to) and there is no legal obligation on the borrower to inform the bank of a change in details at the point of drawdown.

Is this correct, or can anyone help provide any assurance as to why this is perfectly legal and above board?
 
You could also do it in a phased way, like we did. Apply for your first mortgage, then once drawdown apply as a switcher. It'll cost slightly more in fees and time and will involve coordination of min mortgage repayments length. But you will get a solicitor easily as it is just switching.
 
It depends how you look at these things. As a FTB you should still try it although as Red Onion said might be slightly harder with Estate Agents etc but i'd say it is possible. When you apply and draw down a mortgage with a bank they are giving you a loan of money. It is an agreements between the Bank and you. If you repay the loan in 2 weeks or 2 months or 20 years , it doesn't really matter. You have done nothing wrong only repaid you loan very quickly.

The excuse if anyone asks is that as a FTB you applied to all the Banks for a mortgage because you were not sure who would actually offer you one. Get all the offers in and then start the switching. If for example you had a good solicitor on board he could draw down each mortgage every 2/3 days and pay off each mortgage as the next mortgage is drawn down.

e.g BOI mortgage on Monday.
PTSB mortgage on Wednesday which pays off BOI mortgage.
EBS mortgage on Monday which pays off PTSB mortgage.
KBC mortgage on Wednesday which pays off PTSB mortgage.
Ulster Bank on Monday which pays off KBC mortgage.

You will need a good Solicitor to keep an eye on things but it isn't rocket science at the same time.
You are now left with an Ulster Bank mortgage and all the other mortgages are paid off and closed. You have done nothing wrong or illegal here. Absolutely nothing wrong only taking advantage of the cashback offers. As someone said earlier it is up to the banks to check if they are happy to lend you the money. You don't have to tell them you are going to repay the mortgage in 3 days time . Please don't be afraid of this process, if you are in a position to get 1 mortgage offer then you should probably get 4 or 5 more offers. Get the paper work together and start applying and go for it. €9,000 per switch is massive money. I'll happily act as your broker and get everything done for a small fee;).
 
joeschmoe said:
In the switcher example (with bank A, switching to B->C->D), can it be considered fraudulent/illegal to complete and sign a mortgage application form for bank C and D confirming that you hold a mortgage with bank A (with statement etc) but when it comes to drawdown, you no longer hold a mortgage with Bank A, but now have a mortgage with bank B/C instead?
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Certainly neither fraudulent or illegal. This actually happened to me when I was switching. Bank C saw the redemption figures with Bank B noted on them, but on my application it had Bank A. They rang me to confirm that it was in fact Bank B and not a mistake, they asked had I switched in between, I said I had, they said no problem, we just need to amend the loan offer to say Bank B and off we went. They didn't even bat an eyelid really.

As SeanOg has said many times on here, don't be afraid of the process, you are doing nothing wrong either legally or morally, you are just being a proactive customer seeking value in the market. Only 1% of mortgage holders switch their mortgage in this country so when the cashback comes in, use it to further reduce your mortgage bill (+have a few well earned pints). Be organised and go after it.

How long would it take you to earn 36k (9k x 4 switches)? You can do it less than 4 or 5 months with this.
 
Sean Og said:
It depends how you look at these things. As a FTB you should still try it although as Red Onion said might be slightly harder with Estate Agents etc but i'd say it is possible. When you apply and draw down a mortgage with a bank they are giving you a loan of money. It is an agreements between the Bank and you. If you repay the loan in 2 weeks or 2 months or 20 years , it doesn't really matter. You have done nothing wrong only repaid you loan very quickly.

The excuse if anyone asks is that as a FTB you applied to all the Banks for a mortgage because you were not sure who would actually offer you one. Get all the offers in and then start the switching. If for example you had a good solicitor on board he could draw down each mortgage every 2/3 days and pay off each mortgage as the next mortgage is drawn down.

e.g BOI mortgage on Monday.
PTSB mortgage on Wednesday which pays off BOI mortgage.
EBS mortgage on Monday which pays off PTSB mortgage.
KBC mortgage on Wednesday which pays off PTSB mortgage.
Ulster Bank on Monday which pays off KBC mortgage.

You will need a good Solicitor to keep an eye on things but it isn't rocket science at the same time.
You are now left with an Ulster Bank mortgage and all the other mortgages are paid off and closed. You have done nothing wrong or illegal here. Absolutely nothing wrong only taking advantage of the cashback offers. As someone said earlier it is up to the banks to check if they are happy to lend you the money. You don't have to tell them you are going to repay the mortgage in 3 days time . Please don't be afraid of this process, if you are in a position to get 1 mortgage offer then you should probably get 4 or 5 more offers. Get the paper work together and start applying and go for it. €9,000 per switch is massive money. I'll happily act as your broker and get everything done for a small fee;).
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Sean Og said:
It depends how you look at these things. As a FTB you should still try it although as Red Onion said might be slightly harder with Estate Agents etc but i'd say it is possible. When you apply and draw down a mortgage with a bank they are giving you a loan of money. It is an agreements between the Bank and you. If you repay the loan in 2 weeks or 2 months or 20 years , it doesn't really matter. You have done nothing wrong only repaid you loan very quickly.

The excuse if anyone asks is that as a FTB you applied to all the Banks for a mortgage because you were not sure who would actually offer you one. Get all the offers in and then start the switching. If for example you had a good solicitor on board he could draw down each mortgage every 2/3 days and pay off each mortgage as the next mortgage is drawn down.

e.g BOI mortgage on Monday.
PTSB mortgage on Wednesday which pays off BOI mortgage.
EBS mortgage on Monday which pays off PTSB mortgage.
KBC mortgage on Wednesday which pays off PTSB mortgage.
Ulster Bank on Monday which pays off KBC mortgage.

You will need a good Solicitor to keep an eye on things but it isn't rocket science at the same time.
You are now left with an Ulster Bank mortgage and all the other mortgages are paid off and closed. You have done nothing wrong or illegal here. Absolutely nothing wrong only taking advantage of the cashback offers. As someone said earlier it is up to the banks to check if they are happy to lend you the money. You don't have to tell them you are going to repay the mortgage in 3 days time . Please don't be afraid of this process, if you are in a position to get 1 mortgage offer then you should probably get 4 or 5 more offers. Get the paper work together and start applying and go for it. €9,000 per switch is massive money. I'll happily act as your broker and get everything done for a small fee;).
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Thanks very much, these is really helpful. Some final questions. If I'm correct you payback full mortgage with the drawdown of the 2nd bank. Does this not mean at one point for a day or so you are drawndown twice which is surely not ideal as I would be drawndown for 900k for example in total? Do you have any recommendations for a broker or solicitor in the dunblin region or is it a cáse that I keep ringing around until I find ones familiar with this process? Thanks again!
 
I'd check the reps and warranties on the agreement. If you are representing that you are a first time mortgage holder to a bank to whom you're switching, you could be in breach of the agreement.

While the statement might be true when applying, I'd be surprised if there isn't a clause requiring you to advise of any material changes in circumstances when completing. It isn't up to the Bank to do a second verification of the facts if you have warrantied to inform them of changes.

Now - whether they would care at the end of the day - I don't know.
 
You are never confirming that you are a 1st time mortg holdr but rather that you are a 1st time buyer, subtle but important distinction. So no, you are not breaching any agreemnet in this regard.
 
Hi, can anyone recommend a solicitor in the Dublin area for this process ?
We are buying a new house, not FTB, and keeping existing property.
 
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