Buying in Lanzarote

almostthere said:

or I can spend €30k per annum on holidays all over the place.

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Oh, now that's what I'd do!! There are many that love the idea, but for me, returning to the same place year after year would become just like another home. I fear I'd start noticing and experiencing all the things that take the holiday shine off a place.

The weather in Andalucia is pretty nice all year round.

I am guilty of enjoying the TV programme " A Place in the Sun". They seem to concentrate on Spain more so than other countries. As Gordon says above, the weather in Andalucia is pretty good all year round. There are some lovely inland white villages where house prices seem reasonable. Because the locals live there, most things stay open even in the winter.
Leo puts his finger on it above. When I have to deal with taxes and rates and local council charges and noisy neighbours etc. I think, knowing that I can walk away from all of this in a few weeks and just hand back the keys suits me fine.
A family member is away in Spain at the moment in his own holiday home. He says that he feels safer there than in Ireland and is able to sit outside in the sun, at a restaurant and enjoy a meal.

Have to say that I would mostly agree with your family member about feeling safer in Spain, there obviously are the covid hotspots like Madrid, Barcelona but when you start to look at the smaller towns and villages there is a different story altogether.
The place I've rented in for this winter(Lubrin) has yet to report its first covid case, surrounding areas have cases but there in the very low numbers
and given that the weather here is at best unpredictable and as predictable as you can get in Spain I feel the risk of traveling and staying there is worth it.

It’s a tricky one where I can see both sides. My parents have a place on the Algarve and they spend a decent chunk of the year there. They have clothes and toiletries and non-perishable food etc so they, or any of us, can head out there on a whim for a long weekend. We’ve spare sets of golf clubs as well and with circa 6 flights a day, you can always get there pretty reasonably. My kids love it and there’s a lot to be said for having your own pool etc.

They do go to other places, which is important, as my sense is that a lot of people feel they have to go to their place the whole time.

So it’s enjoyable and convenient and it’s a really nice spot.

But this is “Askaboutmoney”, not “Wish You Were Here”. Financially, it’s an abomination. There’s a decent chunk of money tied up in it, it’s probably worth what they paid for it 16 years ago, and the service charges, taxes, and maintenance are hefty. It makes no sense money-wise at all. Yes it’s great to have but it’s not my money. The convenience and comfort are simply not worth the opportunity cost of not having that money invested in a diversified share portfolio.

I'd be a guy in non covid times travelling to Andalucía at a whim. Spain is popular because of the huge amount of sunshine throughout the year and flights are often and relatively cheap and about 2 hours flying time.

TV programmes like A Place in the Sun are nothing short of rubbish when you factor in all the realities of buying property abroad. However, it's good watchable television for the masses and lucrative for the makers of the programme. I've looked at a few such programmes and I spend more time shouting at such television than screaming at ROI against Slovakia.

There was a time when buying abroad was a relatively good investment. I have no doubt that the good times will return but it will be some time. In the terms of price of Spanish coastal property Covid is a mere side-show compared to Brexit. Somebody will contradict me pointing out the people in Nordic countries will take up the slack. But, when it comes to buying property in Spain, you can't beat the Brits.

Leper said:

But, when it comes to buying property in Spain, you can't beat the Brits.

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Yet a lot of properties that are for sale on the show are owned by Brits. Why are they selling up to go back home?

One person, sold up and all they could afford back home was a chalet style home on a mobile home park in the U.K.

almostthere said:

Yet a lot of properties that are for sale on the show are owned by Brits. Why are they selling up to go back home?

One person, sold up and all they could afford back home was a chalet style home on a mobile home park in the U.K.

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Interesting points and I'll answer as honestly as I can:-
1. Most Brits who sell do so because they are pushing on and don't want their offspring loaded with Spanish inheritance tax, hassle etc. Furthermore, their offspring may not want the responsibility of owning a property abroad. The cash will do instead - Comprende Dad?
2. If the Brits own most of the holiday homes in any coastal location in Spain it is obvious that most properties for sale are owned by Brits.
3. Most Brits buy foreign property as investment (although many will tell you differently). The property is to be sold and this usually means that the vendor will rent (without any property worries) at a cheap rate and remain in Spain and of course have now much more disposable income.
4. Brits who sold up in the UK to buy in Spain and then wish to return to live in the UK are burnt by the price of UK property or UK property rental. But, the average Brit looks on the NHS as their White Knight saviour especially in old age (and I can't blame them).
5. A huge percentage of Brits in Spain are there illegally and have no residencia and fear isolation after Brexit.

No 5 sounds very plausable. And another very important point to note is the fall of sterling against the euro since Brexit hit in 2016. Sterling has fallen off a cliff and it won't be rising anytime soon either. It must be especially tough on those relying on meagre UK pensions in this scenario, it's no wonder they be scrambling to sell up and get out at this stage.

Also many couples would have gone to retire together in Spain and inevitable the years pass by and one person passes away. It would then make sense to sell up and return to the security and company of family in the UK.

1. Sterling is down at the moment and obviously affects Brits living abroad, but they are used to this and Sterling will rise again as it always has. I don't think it has much influence over the Brit in Spain when it comes to making important decisions. They can shop cheaper and better in Spain and buy a bottle of wine in a supermarket at 8.00am if they wish. But, most residents from the UK in Spain know how to drink against their counterparts on sun holidays.
2. When you die in Spain, funerals are cheaper than here or in the UK. Most widows/widowers (I hate these words) continue to live in Spain after the death or a spouse/partner. Strangely many Brits remarry in Gibraltar after the death of a spouse/partner (can be done in 2 days).
3. I'm not saying Spain is some kind of Utopia, but way-of-life there is much slower with most places closed on Sundays (even supermarkets in the off seasons) and you can live in shorts and teeshirts for 10 months of the year. If you have to learn Spanish it's much easier than trawling through Peig and pays more life enjoying dividends. Covid will end sometime and if we're still around we'll spend at least 182 days per year there. During the other six months while back in Ireland we'll travel to other countries like we have done for years. In the past two years we've travelled to China, Italy, France, Germany while we were not residing in Spain - I think Covid-19 is chasing us!
4. You have time for everything in Spain. Breakfast on the terrace, read extensively there, eat-out for €6.00 main course (and it ain't fish-n-chips which you can get for a fiver). For those who drink a class bottle of Spanish wine can be bought for €3.50 (€33.50 here). Still you can have your Spanish cornflakes, etc at a fraction of what it is to shop here. We have a car there, mind you, it's taken more knocks than the bumpers in any funfair but it's small and if you like driving stooped in 40 degrees it's an eyeopener and an appreciation of our family cars in Ireland.

almostthere said:

A family member is away in Spain at the moment in his own holiday home. He says that he feels safer there than in Ireland ...

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Does he feel unsafe in Ireland and if so, why?
What part of Ireland, if you don’t mind me asking?

Drakon said:

Does he feel unsafe in Ireland and if so, why?
What part of Ireland, if you don’t mind me asking?

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Everybody wears a mask, even outdoors.
Can't sit within 6 metres of the sea to allow people to walk along by the sea.
Sitting outdoors in restaurants. Chairs are not back to back like Ireland. They measure the 2 metre rule from the back of the extended chair.
Waiters in restaurants wear masks not visors. Tables/chairs sprayed and cleaned down after use. Ground also sprayed in some restaurants.
Able to sit outside when eating in restaurants, in warm weather. Never once sat indoors.

My parents have friends from the UK who’ve relocated to Portugal lock, stock, and barrel. But as they get older, my sense is that they become more isolated and regret not maintaining a link to the UK. Plus, as prices continue to diverge, they can’t really afford to move back.

The more I see, the more I think that buying somewhere overseas is bonkers unless you’re loaded. Loaded enough to still go to other places without caring and loaded enough to still have your home here.

Ah. Covid.

I think there is a big difference between buying a holiday home abroad versus relocating to another country. I have friends who have done both:
1. Holiday home abroad: this is hugely attractive for lots of us, head off when you want, leave your clothes there, no rent to pay. Ideal! Downsides are well described by Leper and others, local taxes, cost of services such as water, power, trash, community taxes, municipal taxes, security while you aren't there, tenants, neighbours, unscrupulous letting agents, not having a choice of holiday destinations, hiring/buying car for your visits etc.
2. Relocating; our friends who were in #1 above have taken the plunge and sold the holiday home to purchase a 3 bed villa with pool, gardening and pool service. They say they can live the lifestyle on €42k per year, including private health insurance. They have no intention of ever returning to Ireland to live but we shall see what happens if one of them passes. In that case, the equity in their villa will easily buy a small home in rural Ireland, where they are from. None of their kids/grandkids live in Ireland although that may change but it's as likely to be UK as Ireland. Incidentally, they live in an ex-pat bubble and make no effort to learn the language which may cause more isolation over time.
Other friends who have/had holiday homes have sold or are selling as the shine has worn off, kids don't join them on hols etc.

I love the idea of a house in France or Spain but I fear the reality would not meet the dream and I don't have the resources to mess it up and recover financially. It's difficult enough to maintain one house here etc.

Finally, Covid may end up altering the international travel dynamics indefinitely and there could be a knock on effect on property prices in ex-pat enclaves.

Lovely idea though!

Drakon said:

Does he feel unsafe in Ireland and if so, why?
What part of Ireland, if you don’t mind me asking?

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Of course it's unsafe in Ireland right now, just look at the spread of the virus. All those anti mask crowd shouting about the right to their liberty, they don't give a damn about their fellow citizens.

I wasn’t thinking about Covid.
TBH, I would think that anyone that feels “unsafe” about Covid would not be congregating in crowds unless they are in New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam, or other zero-Covid countries.

I remember renting in Tavira, Portugal. We would stroll down to The Black Anchor for a glass of white wine €1.50 and something to eat during the day/evening.

We always sat outdoors. See photo on Facebook page.

There were always a couple of tables of ageing hippy type Brits enjoying their white wine and a few rolled cigarettes. They were all harmless.

It looked like a nice way to while away some time. I think if you have a good circle of friends it could be great. I am not a big drinker and would not need to drink every day but the company would be good.

almostthere said:

Everybody wears a mask, even outdoors.
Can't sit within 6 metres of the sea to allow people to walk along by the sea.
Sitting outdoors in restaurants. Chairs are not back to back like Ireland. They measure the 2 metre rule from the back of the extended chair.
Waiters in restaurants wear masks not visors. Tables/chairs sprayed and cleaned down after use. Ground also sprayed in some restaurants.
Able to sit outside when eating in restaurants, in warm weather. Never once sat indoors.

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Heard a guy from a restaurant lobby group On the radio saying that Irish restaurants have accounted for only 6% of Covid cases here and no staff have been infected.
I assume his figures are from before last Wednesday. AFAIK a maximum of 15 people are permitted in an restaurant and must be seated outdoors. Dunno how this compares with Spain.