Buying an apartment with an unfixed leakage problem in the complex

Hi all,

We have gone sale agreed on a nice duplex 3+ beds. Currently getting the survey organised. Have found through existing residents that there is a leakage issue in the complex blocks which only effects some of the flats. Current MC had got some work done but it has not fixed the leakage.

The leakage seems to be due to the patio on top of the ground floor apartments and not roof. There seems to be lot of agitation around this along with potential raising of funds to get further rectification done. I know there is a gov scheme which would be use as well and builders seems to have also said they will do something. Sink fund value also will be checked along with check there is no direct impact on apartment we are buying(which is on top floor).

Its a big enough money to ensure there are no complications or unforeseen circumstances.

I know it sounds bleak but is there any options or steps we can take apart from what i have listed below ?

1) Get all the AGM minutes/Sink funds/Defaults on maintenance and fire safety data along with work done from the agents/MC
2) Arrange a survey to validate no major issues in the apt we are buying
3) Depending on findings - walk away or negotiate with seller if anything major work being planned with a risk to spend more in future.

Its a good location where no major houses this big come up so we are conscious of not just walking away as it would be snapped up quickly !

EDIT:- Yes it has a flat roof at the top !

Thanks for your time and any inputs

I find the "txt spk" style of your post difficult to follow and consequently may not have a complete understanding of your post. To get the best from the site, maybe consider editing your post to make it clearer.

I don't understand what you mean by "Current MC "? If MC means management company, then there is only ever one owner management (OMC) or do you mean the managing agent appointed by the OMC?

Unless and until you purchase the apartment, I don't believe you as a non-member can have access to the data of a private company nor can an agent of that company provide you with access.

rockpaper4u said:

Sink fund value also will be checked along with check there is no direct impact on apartment we are buying(which is on top floor).

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Perhaps I'm being too cautious here but just wondering if you have a flat roof at any point on this duplex which is on top floor? If the complex has leakage problems and you will have a flat roof they are notorious for leaking. A friend has a flat roof on their apartment and had leaks twice which they found very hard to get sorted with the management company. A very thorough survey would be required.

It sounds like you are not buying one of the leaked onto units so probably not directly impacted but I think your question is what impact it is likely to have on you as a member of the management company - answer is "it depends." If the OMC has a good sinking fund its probably not likely to be a huge issue but probably will result in higher charges in future years. I've seen developments in the past 6 years with anything from 500-2200 annual charges so if it is at the lower end it might not be so much of a problem.

I've lived in two apartments. My block didn't have problems but the other one did (both where identical). In was the ground floor apartment that was getting wet, the damage was from a missing layer/membrane when the sliding doors on the duplexes upstairs were build. It had been going on for a couple of years, when I'd bought, I didn't realise (about 25 years ago, when I bought they were build 4-5 years). Many of the owners that were effected were happy to pay themselves to get the work done the challenge being that it needed to be organised via management company and access to the upper floors. In my case, I've since sold, but while I was there 15 years, I'd no problems. This appeared to be a known cause and solution.

The other case, was my partners property, this was where there was a flat roof above part of the apartment. This was a celtic tiger build. This had water damage very badly over the years. I believe we got it fixed before we sold it, hadn't had any problems for a couple of years - but we were there about 10 years, and and early years some rooms required replastering / reflooring twice as the water damage was so bad. In general the standard of the build wasn't bad, but the flat roofs were a nightmare. In this case we found dealing with the management company okay, the problem was trying to fix the leak - combination of re-roofing the flat roof above us, changing the flashing and window sills above us. It took a number of goes to get it resolved - I suspect it was a combination of problems. But it was always difficult to know, it would depend on the volume and direction of rain.

For you, its a risk. If part of your property is a flat roof above someone else, they may need access to your property at some point. There maybe cost implications (Size of sinking fund / look at potential number of apartments effected). If there's a flat roof above you, this is a bigger risk. Depending on the size of the flat roof, it can be harder to get insurance - I got quite close to that threshold in my first apartment.

In my opinion flat roofs in Ireland are problematic with our weather. Where the water comes in, isn't necessarily where the leak is on the outside and can take some time to find. Difference between an apartment/complex and a private home is the ownership of the problem. A flat roof was a huge no for us when buying our current property (house).

dem_syhp said:

Depending on the size of the flat roof, it can be harder to get insurance - I got quite close to that threshold in my first apartment.

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But isn't insurance usually provided under the management fee. On standard house insurance there are strict rules with regard to the upkeep of flat roofs

If your roof has been damaged in either a storm or bad weather, or if a leak has caused an issue, we are on hand to help you through this emergency. It is important to note that if you have a felt roof, this must be less than five years old or have been inspected by a certified professional builder in the last three years for the cover to be valid in the event of any claims. It is also important to note that any damage to the exterior guttering is not covered by the policy. For more information on what your policy cover entails, please refer to your policy documents.

Sue Ellen said:

But isn't insurance usually provided under the management fee. On standard house insurance there are strict rules with regard to the upkeep of flat roofs

If your roof has been damaged in either a storm or bad weather, or if a leak has caused an issue, we are on hand to help you through this emergency. It is important to note that if you have a felt roof, this must be less than five years old or have been inspected by a certified professional builder in the last three years for the cover to be valid in the event of any claims. It is also important to note that any damage to the exterior guttering is not covered by the policy. For more information on what your policy cover entails, please refer to your policy documents.

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Management fees cover rebuilding costs, not contents. When I was first insuring my property, I don't recall them asking about flat roof or distance from rivers, but they did in later years. I can't speak for now, but 10 years ago when I was insuring, one of the limitations, was if more than I think it was 20% of the property was under a flat roof it flagged extra challenges. I was just under so didn't have to look further.

Thanks All...Yes its a flat roof. The maintenance charges are 1800 per year. I already checked few quotes for home insurance and they are available with flat roof > 30% criteria.

The apartment in question is on the top with a flat roof for clarity.

And yes we are trying to get details onto how much sink funds are there. In case the survey of this apartment comes back all OK and the sink fund is less what options do we have ?

rockpaper4u said:

And yes we are trying to get details onto how much sink funds are there. In case the survey of this apartment comes back all OK and the sink fund is less what options do we have ?

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If the sinking fund is insufficient to cover a proper repair, then you should very seriously consider walking away. An underfunded sinking fund could be indicative of lots of owners not paying fees or poor management of the development.

As others here will have experienced, once you're an owner, you can be required to pay additional sums to cover the costs of repairs to other blocks or shared services in the development.

Leo said:

If the sinking fund is insufficient to cover a proper repair, then you should very seriously consider walking away. An underfunded sinking fund could be indicative of lots of owners not paying fees or poor management of the development.

As others here will have experienced, once you're an owner, you can be required to pay additional sums to cover the costs of repairs to other blocks or shared services in the development.

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thanks...will do ! Any other implications

All came back OK on the survey re leakage in the apartment.

Can anyone shade some light on survey finding around fire safety please. This is the biggest finding

The apartment needs fire corridor 1/2 hour from top floor to exit. Doors are not fire safety compliant and will need to be changed.

Fireplace has notice of not to be used until repairs are carried out.

I am surprised that this major thing is not outlined by EA or neighbours i talked to.
Are we looking at ball park of 20-25k to fix the first point? I plan to go back to seller to either sort it or get reduction in price.

Surveyor has said that you can negotiate price and grt it sorted

Also the solicitor is of no use as they said we dont advise on survey/engineer report?

Mant thanks

rockpaper4u said:

The apartment needs fire corridor 1/2 hour from top floor to exit. Doors are not fire safety compliant and will need to be changed.

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This is the most wishy-washy piece of fire regulation in any dwelling in Ireland. At the time of build, the doors were compliant, but when time goes by, rules and regulations change. If the FB were let loose on every building in Ireland we'd all be living in tents in Brittas Bay.

Sue Ellen said:

But isn't insurance usually provided under the management fee. On standard house insurance there are strict rules with regard to the upkeep of flat roofs

If your roof has been damaged in either a storm or bad weather, or if a leak has caused an issue, we are on hand to help you through this emergency. It is important to note that if you have a felt roof, this must be less than five years old or have been inspected by a certified professional builder in the last three years for the cover to be valid in the event of any claims. It is also important to note that any damage to the exterior guttering is not covered by the policy. For more information on what your policy cover entails, please refer to your policy documents.

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I've never heard of anyone getting a felt roof certified or inspected.

elcato said:

This is the most wishy-washy piece of fire regulation in any dwelling in Ireland. At the time of build, the doors were compliant, but when time goes by, rules and regulations change. If the FB were let loose on every building in Ireland we'd all be living in tents in Brittas Bay.

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thanks so its not a serious issue??