Buying a house that does not meet building regulations?

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Saynutin

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We are sale agreed on a house which has a couple of issues that popped up in our structural survey:

- Issue 1: The roof does not meet current building regs. There should be ceiling joists in the lower one third of the roof slope (which I understand is to prevent the outward thrust of walls if excess weight pushes down on the roof e.g. a lot of snow). The house was originally built in the 1980s, before building regs were 'a thing' so unless we take the house apart and put it back together, there's no way to know if the house has alternative support in place to prevent this issue. BUT our survey report confirms that the roof currently only shows evidence of minor wear and tear due to the fact that it's c. 40 years old. In summary - there's no immediate risk, but nothing to give us assurance that nothing will happen say 10 years down the road. Also, realistically the resale value of the house will be affected if we need to sell the house again as any surveyor's report will flag this issue.

- Issue 2: The house was originally a bungalow but a significant part of the attic was converted to two bedrooms, an office and a bathroom. The stairs do not meet fire regs as the width is slightly narrower than it should be. So technically, none of the upstairs space is classed as 'habitable space'. This is less of an issue in our eyes as we can just replace the stairs at a relatively low expense.

We really really like the house, location etc. but the survey has made us uneasy. Pre-survey, our accepted bid was €55k above the seller's original asking price. We tried to renegotiate in light of the above issues but the sellers are only willing to accept a price reduction of €15k which seems low given the significance of the issues highlighted.

I may be too invested in the house to the point that I'm still considering going ahead with the purchase. Any thoughts on whether the above is likely to cause insurance issues, or issues with getting our mortgage?

Are we plain stupid for even considering going ahead with the purchase?
 
They won’t cause insurance issues, they will cause mortgage issues, or at least the attic stairs one will. It’s a common issue with attic conversions that they can’t get a reg cert for various reasons and the bank won’t mortage the loan because of it. It’s generally only an issue when selling or buying the house
 
If they exclude the attic rooms from the description of the house it may be OK
 
JoeRoberts said:
If they exclude the attic rooms from the description of the house it may be OK
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The issue here will be that it sounds like that would reduce the bedroom count by 2 so then the valuation would plummet and the bank may not mortgage for that reason.
ClubMan said:
Are you sure about that?
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Yes, as you imply differently please enlighten us rather than vaguely sniping which is of no use to anyone.
 
Any house built that long ago won't meet today's regs and isn't expected to. The bank will send out a valuer to see that the house is worth the sale price, the survey you got is for your own personal use I presume, unlikely the bank is going to want or ask for it unless the valuer highlights a structural issue they want a survey on. I have come across a valuer refuse to value a brand new house at the selling price as felt it was not worth it and I have seen valuers querying say a crack in a gable that they recommended a professional look at but most times the valuer agrees with the valuation.

My own house is 35 yrs old, has a converted attic, stairs definitely doesn't meet today's regs as it's an open thread, probably doesn't on width either but then again neither is it expected to. No insurer has ever asked about this, they ask you the age of the house. I have planning permission for the converted attic rooms done many years ago, I built on a kitchen couple of years ago and actually got an engineer to supervise and provide certs as well in case there was any issue with selling. I asked him what happens about attic and also sunroom I built years ago as don't have certs etc for them (have planning), he said I would just need to get an engineers opinion on them when the time comes, he had a brief look and said there should be no issue and certainly nothing that wasn't an easy fix. It doesn't have to comply with today's building regs, yes it would be nice if it did but that will be the choice of whoever buys unless one of these issues is a serious structural concern then I would be slow to buy!

I'm not quite sure I follow what is wrong with the joists bit, was something removed when the attic was converted as I know things were in mine but not the joists if they are the floor/ceiling timbers going across, mine though were put in strong enough for the conversion option when the house was built. Get a builder/carpenter opinion on how to fix that issue if needed.
 
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Thanks for this. I suppose my insurance concerns are related to the roof. I'm assuming we have two options:

A) Disclose the issue. In that case, I would assume (!?) we would pay a higher premium - but that's just an assumption. And if that is the case then we've no idea how much or a premium we would be expected to pay.

B) Don't disclose. In that case if anything happens related to the roof issue, I would assume our insurance would be null and void.

Maybe I'm overthinking it?

Noted re the mortgage concerns. Thanks for that.
 
Get an opinion from a builder/carpenter on what is needed to fix the roof if indeed it's necessary to fix it at all. What are you declaring to an insurer exactly? That the roof isn't safe or about to fall in or not supported property, you can be sure you will not get insurance at all with that sort of disclosure. Now I get that you feel you know something that should be disclosed but I'd get a second opinion from someone re that situatiion. If my roof were the same this minute due to the attic conversion I wouldn't know the difference and couldn't advise an insurer and they have never asked, most questions on form ask is the house in good condition etc and maintained.

Find out 100% first what the issue is and what the solution is, if you are talking removing the roof to fix it then obviously unless the vendor wants to do that themselves or reduce price so you can do it then you have a decision to make. Every older house you look at will not meet todays regs otherwise we'd be continually having to do extra work every time they change a reg.
 
T McGibney said:
Very few houses built more than a decade ago will meet current building regulations.

Mine certainly won't. And it's a fantastic house.
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and that's why they can't build and especially renovate old houses and (over the shop accomodation) because the building regulations are too onerous, the current regulations would not have stopped the pyrite issue either as that is about regulating concrete and quarry owners which was a wild west area.
 
Thank you, that's very sound advice.
 
This may be obvious, but do not give/mention the report to your solicitor or they will be obliged to inform the bank and that may well be game-over for your mortgage application. Get advice you’re comfortable with from specialists in these issues then make a call yourselves.

FWIW neither of those issues would stop me purchasing, perfect houses do not exist here in my experience.
 
BlackandBlue said:
Curious, does the house meet the relevant regulations at the time of construction initially and subsequent conversion?
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There were no building regs in Ireland until 1990s as far as I am aware (so n/a when the house was originally built). We have asked them to confirm specifically when the attic was converted, as perhaps they should have put more support into the roof at that stage (which we reckon was likely done after building regs came into force).
Unfortunately we are amateurs... we cc'd our solicitor on the survey report correspondence. We now realize our mistake which is why we think the mortgage may be an issue now... So many lessons learned!!
 
Do you need to revisit the fact that it is 55k over the asking price ? All relative to value of house but maybe a good time to reassess everything, a bit of stalling may re focus the vendors minds on valuation.
 
One thing you should never lie for is insurance. The way to approach this is to answer the insurance questions honestly.

I think it is pretty unlikely for a roof that has stood steady for 40 years will fall down now.

I'm currently dealing with a wall of over a hundred years and whether to take it down or not. We have the opinions of 4 experts and have made the decision to leave it -party wall that is also the extension wall and had no clue of this for the last 20 years. Also an expert has recommended that the walls in the attic be built up as you can climb into neighbours which was the way things used to be but now it's a firewall issue so I'll be doing that.
 
Setforlife said:
The issue here will be that it sounds like that would reduce the bedroom count by 2 so then the valuation would plummet and the bank may not mortgage for that reason.
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The valuer is not going to do that. Loads of places are like this. Based on what the OP says it's only a minor matter. I sold a property a year ago and we had to pretend the garage conversion to flat didn't exist. It had no planning and everybody just plays along.
 
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