Buying 10 foot of common area for extension

[thumper]

Hi folks,

Bit of background first- live in a small newish development of 14 detached houses located about 14 miles from a major regional city. Well run Management company (appointed by residents) in place which has a number of the Directors being resident in the development.

Would love to extend our dining room and add a playroom to the side of our house by about 12ft wide by about 26ft in length. Boundary wall is 12ft away from the side of our house which runs along the estate common green area. No neighbouring house at this side.

Extension will need planning and my understanding is the gable wall of this extension needs to be a minimun of 2 metres from the boundary wall. Question is then what is the best way to go about purchasing a width of approx 10ft (unsure of length- guess maybe 60 ft) of common area? Do I have to get agreement from all house owners? and what would be a rough price estimate in purchasing some of the common area? Obviously money would go to the Management company to be used in whatever way the residents would decide.

Any help is much appreciated

 

[Superman]

Extension will need planning and my understanding is the gable wall of this extension needs to be a minimun of 2 metres from the boundary wall.

There is no such requirement. The only 2 relevant rules are the Planning requirement of having a certain amount of back garden/yard space and the Fire Regulations requirements regarding the size and distance from boundary of opes. If you have no windows (or other unprotected areas), you can build on the boundary. If you build 1m from the boundary, you can have c.5.5 sq.m. IIRC -increasing as you move back.

Question is then what is the best way to go about purchasing a width of approx 10ft (unsure of length- guess maybe 60 ft) of common area? Do I have to get agreement from all house owners? and what would be a rough price estimate in purchasing some of the common area?

The Management Company is presumably the owner, in which case you will need their agreement only. Depending on how the internal rules of that are run, you may need the agreement of all house owners. You might approach the Management Company to see who the owner is.

 

[thumper]

There is no such requirement. The only 2 relevant rules are the Planning requirement of having a certain amount of back garden/yard space and the Fire Regulations requirements regarding the size and distance from boundary of opes. If you have no windows (or other unprotected areas), you can build on the boundary. If you build 1m from the boundary, you can have c.5.5 sq.m. IIRC -increasing as you move back.

Thats good to know perhaps I dont need to purchase as much common area as I orginally guessed. When you mention 5.5 sq.m what does that refer to?

Has anybody every bought some (few feet) of their green/common area? and if so any idea of cost and hassle factor involved? Once again any help much appreciated.

 

[Superman]

When you mention 5.5 sq.m what does that refer to?

Should be 5.6sq.m....
See Table 4.2 (Permitted unprotected areas in
small residential buildings) in this:
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

 

[onq]

Should be 5.6sq.m....
See Table 4.2 (Permitted unprotected areas in
small residential buildings) in this:
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

I wonder is that Table meant to be interpreted per compartment?

Because in normal domestic construction you are meant to have FR30 between Gd and 1st floor.

If you convert the attic and install more fire separation measures including fire doors, you may be deemed to have compartmented the building.

In commercial buildings the Enclosing Rectangle method is calculated on a part compartment basis.

ONQ.

 

[onq]

(snip)Question is then what is the best way to go about purchasing a width of approx 10ft (unsure of length- guess maybe 60 ft) of common area?(snip)

What you term Common Area is possibly termed Public Open Space in the permission documents and such it may be out of your hands.

From your description of the brief and the garden you don't need any more space - you might have to learn to work within what you have.

If you have the kind of money to buy land and extend significantly, have you considered trading up - in the current market, it might cost less.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

 

[onq]

There is no such requirement.

Superman, there appears to be one specific mention of a 2M rule in the Planning Regulations 2001.

From

The Planning Regulations 2001 S.!. 600 of 2001
SCHEDULE 2
Article 6
Part 1
Exempted Development — General

Development within the curtilage of a house

Class 1

The extension of a house, by the construction or erection of an extension (including a conservatory) to the rear of the house or by the conversion for use as part of the house of any garage, store, shed or other similar structure attached to the rear or to the side of the house.

Conditions and Limitations

Condition 3.

Any above ground floor extension shall be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.

-------------------------------------

I know you were probably mentally paraphrasing Superman.

This 2M rule cannot apply per se, where the owner is building significantly to the side, as opposed to directly behind the house, because this isn't considered exempted development.

And the 2M may not apply where there is no habitable space created above Ground Floor level in an "above ground floor extension".

The only 2 relevant rules are the Planning requirement of having a certain amount of back garden/yard space and the Fire Regulations requirements regarding the size and distance from boundary of opes (snip)

There may be several other "rules" arising from specific limiting Conditions that may have been included in any particular permission.

There may also be guidelines to follow in the county development plan, SDZ, local area plan, other zoning related matters, or development plan objectives controlling development in the OP's area - it could be a small infill development in an Architectural Conservation Area for example.

There are limits on exempted development in the planning regulations.

We have already covered building beside, near or over drains in at least two threads in these forums and the op may find that unless such large side garden are a feature in the estate his may be the site through which the main sewer reaches its final outfall.

And even thsi is not an exhaustive list.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

 

[Superman]

There may be several other "rules" arising from specific limiting Conditions that may have been included in any particular permission.

There may also be guidelines to follow in the county development plan, SDZ, local area plan, other zoning related matters, or development plan objectives controlling development in the OP's area.

There are limits on exempted development in the planning regulations.

These items cover areas - not distances.

We have already covered building beside, near or over drains in at least two threads in these forums and the op may find that unless such large side garden are a feature in the estate his may be the site through which the main sewer reaches its final outfall.

This would not be affected by extending the side garden. Either the drain and/or wayleave is next to his house (in which case there is a problem which must be resolved) or it is not (in which case there is not).

 

[Superman]

Normally you're pretty sharp Superman, but there is specific mention of a 2M rule in the planning Regulations

That is in relation to the technical requirement of applying for Permission/exemption therefrom - it is not a bar on the occurrence of such development.

 

[onq]

That is in relation to the technical requirement of applying for Permission/exemption therefrom - it is not a bar on the occurrence of such development.

(chuckle)

I even edited that bit out of the final post because I thought it was too much of a back-handed compliment.

Oh well...

I don't think we're disagreeing here.

The OP originally posted:

"...my understanding is the gable wall of this extension needs to be a minimun of 2 metres from the boundary wall..."

It was dismissed without qualification.

I didn't want to leave readers of his post wondering where the OP might have gotten that dimension.

ONQ.

 

[onq]

These items cover areas - not distances.

The OP advised the forum as follows:

"Would love to extend our dining room and add a playroom to the side of our house"

The original question centred on how to buy a piece of land to facilitate a private development - not about distances or areas per se.
My comments pointed the OP towards some possible constraints on development which might affect the purchase and/or the reason for purchase.

This would not be affected by extending the side garden. Either the drain and/or wayleave is next to his house (in which case there is a problem which must be resolved) or it is not (in which case there is not).

If there is a drain in the side garden it may prevent the extension of the house to the side - this is another thing for the OP to check prior to going forward; -

• The OP wants to extend to the side.
• It is possible there is a sewer there.
• You cannot build over a public sewer.
• If its still a private sewer with a wayleave the OP might negotiate a way around it.
• If he is allowed build over the drain it may impede or prevent future handover by the builder to the Council.

Unusual gaps between dwellings suggest the may be something not immediately visually apparent:

• planning constraint [including the land being part of the Public Open Space requirement]
• underground watercourse of culvert
• main drain
• services
• poor ground

The OP should investigate the reason for the gap - assuming it is an unusual gap - before spending a lot of time and possibly money on buying a strip of land.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

 

[thumper]

Condition 3.

Any above ground floor extension shall be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.[/I]

-------------------------------------

I know you were probably mentally paraphrasing Superman.

This 2M rule cannot apply per se, where the owner is building significantly to the side, as opposed to directly behind the house, because this isn't considered exempted development.

And the 2M may not apply where there is no habitable space created above Ground Floor level in an "above ground floor extension".

.

Yes thats the 2M rule I had read about and based my assumption on. Glad to here that it doesnt apply when I would be considering building to the side of my house and the extension wouldnt have any habitable space above it. If this was the case and to avoid cost, hassle etc I could build out a distance of 10 ft and allow a ft for the blockwork- it would be tight though. Can I built right up to the boundary wall as described? - I have approx 12ft the other side of me as well so access to the rear wouldnt be a problem.

As regards drains Im not too sure all houses are connected to a common waste treatment tank and Im unsure about the connection to this.

As regards the overall look of the extension it would blend it nicely as all houses are different with many of the houses containing a sunrrom to the side so my proposed extension wouldnt stick out too much.

Thanks for your replies,

Much appreciated

 

[onq]

Yes thats the 2M rule I had read about and based my assumption on. Glad to here that it doesnt apply when I would be considering building to the side of my house and the extension wouldnt have any habitable space above it.(snip)

Sorry Thumper,

To clarify for readers of this forum.
I don't mean to say it doesn't apply at all.

The rule is an enforceable guide if you are extending without permission, i.e. its part of the Exempted Development Schedule.
As soon as you decide to extend sideways, you need permission, and so a whole other set of considerations apply, which may or may not include this rule.

For example, the local planners may think its a good rule of thumb to follow when considering new applications regardless, so it *may* apply, or you may be prevented from building to the side at all.
However once you're building to the side you need permission and that's a different process from building an exempted development.

In both cases I recommend you take professional advice.

HTH

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.