Bullying of small cars.


Nothing wrong with moving lane to overtake joining traffic once it's done correctly.

You're trying to real hard to infer lane hogging holding up impatient drivers....

As I said earlier UK drivers move left much more often by the book and (in my opinion) it makes for a far more chaotic experience. Cars constantly switching lanes. Irish motorways are far less stressful and more predictable to drive on.

I would not say Irish rules of the road are perfect. Ours are mainly cut and paste from older UK rules and updated very slowly. Other countries have some rules I think are better.
 
Early Riser said:
Off the top of my head I mightn't agree with the percentages, but I would agree with the substantial point that the use (and non-use) of indicators is appalling. As is the understanding and use of lanes at roundabouts.
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The design of many roundabouts is appalling. Which doesn't help. Personally I think they make roundabouts way too small for the number of lanes they try to squeeze into them.
 
Hmmm, I have my doubts. Improvements in vehicle safety, road layout, the introduction of motorways and a crackdown on drink driving seem more likely causal factors than a sudden change in human nature!

AlbacoreA said:
The design of many roundabouts is appalling. Which doesn't help. Personally I think they make roundabouts way too small for the number of lanes they try to squeeze into them.
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And then they plant bushes in the middle of the roundabout to impede your view of incoming traffic!
 
Right Winger said:
Hmmm, I have my doubts. Improvements in vehicle safety, road layout, the introduction of motorways and a crackdown on drink driving seem more likely causal factors than a sudden change in human nature!
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There's never been, and never will be, a sudden change in human nature. It is a reflection of better training.
 
I was driving home late one night on the motorway. Going handy because I was a bit tired.
I saw these bright lights coming up fast behind me in the distance.
I was thinking this must be a BMW or Mercedes or Audi or something equally flashy.
Then a Toyota Aygo zoomed past me.
Beware of tiny cars too!!
 
AlbacoreA said:
Nothing wrong with moving lane to overtake joining traffic once it's done correctly.
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Other than the law that states it's illegal, nothing at all.

AlbacoreA said:
You're trying to real hard to infer lane hogging holding up impatient drivers....
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Though that does indeed happen a lot, I'm not, I'm simply clarifying what the law actually says.
 

Cars overtaking slower cars, isn't that the way it's meant to work...
 
With drivers who might not change lanes to allow other drivers to enter the motorway on the basis that it is illegal, it is not surprising that there are so many collisions on the M50
 
AlbacoreA said:
Where does it say you can't change lane to overtake
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I've already linked the legislation. You clearly can change lane to overtake a vehicle travelling at a slower speed in the lane you are currently driving in. What you can't do is move to lane 2 when lane 1 in empty, even if you perceive that another car may join lane 1. Legally, the responsibility lies with the traffic seeking to join a motorway either getting up to speed to join lane 1 without inconveniencing you, or adjusting speed to join behind you.

You may consider it safer or more obliging to move to lane 2 to make it easier for other traffic to join a motorway, but that doesn't make it legal.
 
I think most people have some common sense about it. Even in countries where the law is more rigidly enforced.

I'm triggered by the stay left dogma because it's often misunderstood for cyclists.
 
This is your interpretation of the law which I would argue is incorrect.
 

I'm not sure how you think traffic can join the motorway without going into lane 1. Or how you can overtake traffic joining behind you.

I've visions of someone being paralyzed behind a traffic light stuck on red for days. "...must not break law...or use common sense..."
 
Isn't this is what you quoted from the legislation


9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.


S.I. No. 182/1997 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997

The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.
www.irishstatutebook.ie

I don't see how this supports the claim that "moving out of the left lane other than to overtake a vehicle already in that lane is actually illegal even if it's just temporarily to make it easier for someone else to merge in" on a motorway. On a regular road of course you can't do it, there's oncoming traffic.

The legislation above is for roads not motorways -
"pedestrians" (you must not endanger them but they shouldn't be on motorways)
"roadway"
but the main reason it clearly isn't referring to motorways is
"approaching traffic to pass on the right".
there's a separate section (33) for motorways in the 1997 act. which admittedly is useless - but perhaps improved on later.
 
The 'save where otherwise required' and 'a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway' I think is pretty clear. Moving right when the lane ahead of you is clear is not overtaking. It is making way for another vehicle to enter the road, but that is not specified anywhere as a scenario that overrules the requirement to stay left.

Remember, the law is also clear that traffic joining a motorway must yield to traffic already on it, so the scenario of traffic joining a road ahead of faster moving traffic that then needs to overtake to maintain speed is not permitted.

ashambles said:
The legislation above is for roads not motorways -
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Can you point me to where the law states that a motorway is not a road or roadway as defined in the acts?

ashambles said:
there's a separate section (33) for motorways in the 1997 act. which admittedly is useless - but perhaps improved on later.
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Ah here, do you honestly think that no other section of the RTA applies to driving on a motorway just because S33 calls out additional specific rules for them? So there's no speed limits? No drink-driving limits?
 
If you think anticipating a hazard like a slow moving vehicle ahead, and not reacting to it, because of "the law" is good driving I can't agree.

The law used to say cyclist had to stay left and in the cycle lane, until it was pointed it out was dumb, and often dangerous, especially for the inexperienced, and those that follow law blindly. Thus they changed it.
 
AlbacoreA said:
If you think anticipating a hazard like a slow moving vehicle ahead, and not reacting to it, because of "the law" is good driving I can't agree.
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I think the point is that the slow moving vehicle is the hazard so the driver of the slow moving vehicle is the one who is driving badly and/or dangerously.
AlbacoreA said:
The law used to say cyclist had to stay left and in the cycle lane, until it was pointed it out was dumb, and often dangerous, especially for the inexperienced, and those that follow law blindly. Thus they changed it.
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Yes, the law can indeed be an ass.

In my opinion if your conduct on the road is causing other drivers in the flow of traffic to manoeuvre, be that breaking or overtaking, then you are driving dangerously as manoeuvring increases the chances of a crash occurring. The law as written, despite its faults, seems to concur.
 
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