Brendan Gleeson's comments on the Late Late Show

[ninsaga]

Anyone see this last night? He just lost it completely .... and based upon his personal experiences in the A&E's he apparently had good reason to do so.

I thought it was a great TV moment where the topic of discussion ending up going down a road where no one had envisaged.

For once, Pat Kenny did not interrupt & try to rephrase what was being said & let Brendan Gleeson say what he had to say... over the course of a few minutes, BG just got more and more angry as he relived his experiences (or rather the experiences of his parents & mother inlaw at an A&E).

ninsaga

 

[onekeano]

Have to agree - great to see someone express their outrage so well. Bertie will be cringing when he watches the tape but the only consolation was that he suggested "the other crowd" weren't much better.

Roy

 

[Henny Penny]

I didn't see all of the Brendan Gleeson interview but I did hear the comments of the panel before him ... saying that there are army barracks all over the place being turned into museums that nobody wants ... which could be used as hospitals.

 

[bearishbull]

dunphy was his usual self ,arguing for the sake of it and looking for more attention to keep his profile/image up.

 

[demoivre]

dunphy was his usual self ,arguing for the sake of it and looking for more attention to keep his profile/image up.

Agree with you - a mouth piece that tries to shout everyone down. Mind you I find that McWilliams guy inordinately long winded and boring - painful listening to him imo.

 

[beattie]

Dunphy picked the wrong target IMO, McWilliams has been railing against high house prices for longer than I care to remember. Agree that McWilliams was quite long winded and his idea about getting a contract for us to sign is ludicrous.

Bit sick and tired of hearing Dunphy going on about opression leading to corruption. It doesn't have to be that way

 

[Betsy Og]

Re: The Popes Children (David McWilliams) anyone have any opinions on the book?

Did ye see the Late Late?? More heat than light as the saying goes. David Mc was accussed of being an auctioneer by Dunphy?

Getting sick of Dunphy - everyone is a "spiv" according to him. He goes on like he's the working class hero. 2 of the modern ills are road safety problems and cocaine abuse - I wonder how Dunphy feels his record is on these issues.

Mostly aimless ranting about builders ripping everyone off - market forces arent too popular with our lads.

Brendan Gleeson made a good emotive speech re the health service but I just think that if it was that easy to fix it that Mary Harney would have done it. Theres a tendancy for many to think that they could come on the scene and sort it out within a few months. This assumes that the current adminstrators are "baboons" (Gleesons words). Now while the system is currently in a bad way I just dont think theres a quick fix.

 

[irishpancake]

Dunphy picked the wrong target IMO, McWilliams has been railing against high house prices for longer than I care to remember. Agree that McWilliams was quite long winded and his idea about getting a contract for us to sign is ludicrous.

Bit sick and tired of hearing Dunphy going on about opression leading to corruption. It doesn't have to be that way

would there not also be a little of the niggle factor there, in that Eammo took over McW's early morning slot on Newstalk?

 

[irishpancake]

Brendan G also made these points very vociferously on Marian Finucanes Radio show some weeks ago, so i think Pat K was well aware of where the debate was going.

 

[Gordanus]

Didn't see the Late Late but Kenny repeated Brendan Gleeson's comment on the radio show this morning. He may have given a personal account, and if this type of expereince were a one-off, I'd write it off as just personal. Unfortunately, this type of thing happens too often. I don't know about the number of administrators - we all need support staff - but the main problem with the Irish Health sytem is that it was crucified in the 80s and the necessary money has never been invested since to bring it up to speed. I immigrated here in the early 90s from working in the NHS in London and I was shocked - I thought I'd gone back 20 years. Other recent immigrants have shared the same view. We couldn't say anything as we were seen as 'outsiders' and more or less told to emigrate again if we didn't like it here.

 

[Purple]

One in every 20 people who work in this country works in the health service. We have a young population so the argument that we are under spending in comparison to greying Europe does not stand up. There has been an increase of at least 60% in the number of people employed in the health service over the last 10 years. At the same time funding has gone up by more than 100%. What return have we had on our investment? A 4% increase in bed capacity and anecdotally deterioration in the quality of service. The problems with the health service will not be fixed with more money alone. The people who run it and work in it and local pressure groups that hold up reforms that are in the national interest are part of the problem (that is not to say that they do not work hard or that their hearts are not in the right place). The problem is that the people who are charged with fixing it do not have enough power to do what is needed. Any proposals will be watered down and twisted to suit the re-election needs of the local TD in a marginal seat until they are useless.

 

[Humpback]

What is it about this country that we are appearing to take heed when a famous actor says something about the health service, we all think it's a big deal, yet when our friends, neighbours and work colleagues speak of their own (sometimes much worse) experiences, we don't really listen that much?

 

[gearoidmm]

At any given time 10-20% of beds in the public hospitals are taken up by elderly people waiting long term care. There's nothing specifically wrong with them except that they can't manage at home anymore and need a nursing home bed. The average waiting time in Dublin is 6-12 months during which time the bed is blocked and people are sitting on trolleys in A/E.

That said, (and I'm not suggesting this is the reason) it is much cheaper to have a person in the bed doing nothing but waiting for placement than having someone whose acutely unwell needing lots of expensive tests.

 

[CMCR]

At any given time 10-20% of beds in the public hospitals are taken up by elderly people waiting long term care. There's nothing specifically wrong with them except that they can't manage at home anymore and need a nursing home bed. The average waiting time in Dublin is 6-12 months during which time the bed is blocked and people are sitting on trolleys in A/E.

That said, (and I'm not suggesting this is the reason) it is much cheaper to have a person in the bed doing nothing but waiting for placement than having someone whose acutely unwell needing lots of expensive tests.

In fact, the statistics in reality are higher. The DOHC estimates that 28% of those in long-term residential care (or occupying long-term beds in public hospitals) could in fact return home, provided the appropriate support was made available to them.

No study has ever been carried out in Ireland regarding the care needs of those currently in long-term residental care or in long-term beds in public hospitals. While some carers associations have some figures - they are not composite so with no national picture, this is one of the reasons the DOHC is hampered in terms of planning.

Currently, the figures are that 20,000 older people are occupying long-term beds in public hospitals and in long-term residential care units. Of that group, 28% (or approx 5,600) could in fact return to the community if appropriate support was made available.

In 2006 the HSE will roll out a series of 2,000 Home Care Packages to assist in the provision of care to older people, young chronic sick (among others) in their own homes. The intention is these Home Care Packages will be individually tailored and will be flexible - they may take the form of a structured payment from the HSE and other supports as appropriate. I believe that 350 of these packages will be rolled out in mid-2006, a further 950 in September and the remainder in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, in terms of cost I don't believe it is cheaper to have someone occupying a long-term bed in a residential centre or in a public hospital when they could be at home. Very often while someone may in fact be frail or unable to cook or clean themselves, they could be more than capable of living on in their own home with appropriate support. From a mental health perspective and a quality of life perspective this is also true.

I recently attended a seminar on long-term care issues and the information above was supplied there.

By the way, information on these Home Care Packages is proving very elusive but as soon as I hear anything more concrete on the nature of these packages and where they are going to be made available, I will post on this matter again.

CMCR

 

[gearoidmm]

You misunderstood me slightly. Of the 600 odd beds in Beaumont hospital, generally roughly 60-100 are occupied by those waiting long-term care. The issue with these is that a decision has been made that they are not fit to return home (although I appreciate that 28% of these might be more appropriately cared for at home if there were proper home care packages in place) and that they need to be placed in a nursing home. Due to a lack of public beds in the ERHA area, these patients wait in hospital taking up acute beds until a NH bed becomes available (usually through someone else dying).

This is not nearly as big a problem down the country for two reasons: First, there are more public NH beds per head of population and second, families down the country are much more likely to take their elderly relatives home to care for them. Providing enough LTC facilities for these people is just as necessary as providing home-care packages. 72% of these patients will never return home no matter how good the package is.

I didn't mean to suggest that it is cheaper to have someone in residential care than at home, merely that it is cheaper to have an elderly patient awaiting a NH bed in a hospital bed than a sick patient (I was being a little facetious)

 

[bearishbull]

One in every 20 people who work in this country works in the health service. We have a young population so the argument that we are under spending in comparison to greying Europe does not stand up. There has been an increase of at least 60% in the number of people employed in the health service over the last 10 years. At the same time funding has gone up by more than 100%. What return have we had on our investment? A 4% increase in bed capacity and anecdotally deterioration in the quality of service. The problems with the health service will not be fixed with more money alone. The people who run it and work in it and local pressure groups that hold up reforms that are in the national interest are part of the problem (that is not to say that they do not work hard or that their hearts are not in the right place). The problem is that the people who are charged with fixing it do not have enough power to do what is needed. Any proposals will be watered down and twisted to suit the re-election needs of the local TD in a marginal seat until they are useless.

your bang on there,we spend 50%more per person than the nhs plus we have a massive private health care sector which is much greater per capita than other countries.

 

[Purple]

That said, (and I'm not suggesting this is the reason) it is much cheaper to have a person in the bed doing nothing but waiting for placement than having someone whose acutely unwell needing lots of expensive tests.

I would suggest that it is the reason. It is a way of hospitals keeping their costs down. That leads on to the debate about whether finding should follow the patient or the patient follow the funding and that's a whole new thread.

 

[gearoidmm]

One in every 20 people who work in this country works in the health service. We have a young population so the argument that we are under spending in comparison to greying Europe does not stand up. There has been an increase of at least 60% in the number of people employed in the health service over the last 10 years. At the same time funding has gone up by more than 100%. What return have we had on our investment? A 4% increase in bed capacity and anecdotally deterioration in the quality of service. The problems with the health service will not be fixed with more money alone. The people who run it and work in it and local pressure groups that hold up reforms that are in the national interest are part of the problem (that is not to say that they do not work hard or that their hearts are not in the right place). The problem is that the people who are charged with fixing it do not have enough power to do what is needed. Any proposals will be watered down and twisted to suit the re-election needs of the local TD in a marginal seat until they are useless.

I have to say that I disagree that there has been a deterioration in overall service. I should declare a conflict of interest and say that I work in the health service. Inflation in running at around 10% per year in the medical sector. 30 years ago, if you had a heart attack they gave you an aspirin and put you into bed - maybe you got better, maybe you didn't. And even if you did you would have permanent damage to your heart and probably wouldn'y last too long anyway. These days, you are transferred to a coronary care unit, you have an angiogram and they can put stents into your arteries to open up the blockages (which can cost up to 5000 each), if that doesn't work you get a bypass, and you leave hospital on a cocktail of expensive drugs.

Similarly in the field of cancer treatment, kidney disease etc, there are newer, extremely expensive treatments coming on line all the time. Thankfully, here, people aren't generally refused treatment for something on the basis of cost. The numbers of doctors and specialists is increasing all the time along with their support staff. We all hear about people waiting on trolleys in A/E and absolutely, it is disgraceful but there are positives and there are many people out there alive today who couldn't have been treated succesfully 10 or 15 years ago.

 

[Grumpy]

.... main problem with the Irish Health sytem is that it was crucified in the 80s and the necessary money has never been invested since to bring it up to speed.

Will someone explain to me, how a lack of investment in the 80`s (over 20 years ago) results in a severe deterioration in services only after an EXTRA
Eur20 BILLION was spent over the last few years.
The Irish Nurses Organisation uses the motto "Nurses for Nurses".Maybe the doctors, porters, cleaners,managers, consultants etc. have a similar attitude.
In my experience this view pervades the Health "Service".
Is there anyone for the patient?

 

[Grumpy]

The budget for the NHS will be £76 Billion (Eur110 Billion) this year .
UK population is about 60 million.
For our population of 4 million this is equivalent to Eur7.4 Billion.
HSE budget this year is Eur12 to 13 Billion.