Bratislava / Prague / Polish cities

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thomsk

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Anyone had experience in investing in these 3 options? I am wondering whether it's too late in the day for prague and poland, and/or is bratislava worth a look.
The reason I am drawn towards bratislava, for one, is that it has not increased massively pricewise in recent years-but seems to have scope to do so. Many big companies seem to be there, and it has what seems to me a pretty good economic outlook.
Having said that, the other options look good. It's whether they can still keep up the appreciation rates for forseeable future??
 
Re: Bratislava/prague/poland cities

Rates of 5%-10% appreciation per annum are predicted for poland for the next 12-24 months.
THere are hopes that it will then take off again for a 2nd cycle as wages catch up and mortgage lending increases.

Prague is said to be in that 2nd cycle now - talks of 20% for the coming year.

DOn't know anything about bratislava.
 
Re: Bratislava/prague/poland cities

I think its very likely that Poland will eventually have a second cycle but by its very nature, a cycle goes down for a period after it goes up. Investors seem to have been almost indiscriminately buying everything that's thrown at them in Poland for the last year or two and I'd be a little concerned that not everyone is purchasing the right property at the right price. (Sounds very familiar to what I witnessed in Budapest 3-4 years ago!)

The issue which many smaller investors seem to skip over is whether or not there is sufficient rental demand for the property they are buying.
 
There are reports that the rental market is now taking off in poland due to to the higher house prices.
 
Has anyone checked out the video on bratislava on 'obelisk' site?
Am wondering where they get their figure of 192% return from?
Any thoughts/opinions would be appreciated.
 
thomsk

have a look at my previous post reccomending bratislava i made a few points there.
I dont like to down real estate agents, as it could have a knock on effect on my own devlopment industry, but oblelisk have a big staff turnover. My last project was in europe and I was in discussions with obelisk about taking them on as an agent. Their first BDM manager was very interested - 2 weeks later he was gone. the second was a girl who was massively demanding on commissions and very aggressive - she was gone a week later. The third guy i spoke to was very good, but also gone a few weeks later.

I do know of a local developer who does very small projects in bratislava, the last time I spoke to him about 2 months ago he had bought a building in the oldtown and was turning it into 4 luxury apartments. ive no idea on price or anything esle about them but i can put you in touch with him if youd like. Are you an agent? you could probably set up an agency agreement with him too
 
Thanks for that Gde. Am still at early stages of research at moment-however your lead is interesting.I would not be looking to invest anything for 6 months yet, though. I have had conversations in the past with obelisk,too - and funnily enough an agent I talked to is no longer there!
For the record, I'm not an agent- but perhaps you could pm me with your man's details (bear in mind a few months before I make any final decisions).
Thanks.
 
What will resale be like in these cities, in say 5-10 years time ? I would be afraid that, in these 'emerging markets', residential development will still be substantial in this timeframe, and resale would be difficult (i.e. sale of new builds will be more attractive for prospective buyers). I guess location is (always) essential.
 
johnnycash said:
What will resale be like in these cities, in say 5-10 years time ? I would be afraid that, in these 'emerging markets', residential development will still be substantial in this timeframe, and resale would be difficult (i.e. sale of new builds will be more attractive for prospective buyers). I guess location is (always) essential.
Click to expand...

I think Bratislava will have an excellent resale potential should it not get over supplied in the coming years. I see it as a hub for central europe, its location and low cost of labour are the key.
Poland good potential as I know many poles have a good work ethic, and also a qualified workforce which have access to europe now and the opportunity to make enough money to purchase themselves down the line.
Prague Im not so familiar with.

The only issue is that perhaps these markets can get over priced artificially having a knock on effect to the locals effecting their buying powers.
The direction of their major banks I feel will have a lot to do with it because the quicker the banks their grow and the more aggressive they are the better loans they can offer the locals, or indeed nationals working abroad where the wages are higher.
 
I reckon Slovakia looks fairly good - both bratislava and the skiing areas, nr tatra mountains.
Something I was reading was that slovakia has the fastest growing economy in central europe, and comparisons are being drawn with ireland in the 90s.
So far, it seems to have a slight edge on poland - given theres been so much in way of rises in poland over last few years?
Tax incentives are there aswell.
 
Anyone who can throw spanners in the works as to investing in slovakia - please do !
 
I think you'll find that most nay sayers, like myself, are just astounded by the relentless optimism in these threads and have given up trying. Everywhere's a hub. Everywhere is in / just about to go to a 2nd cycle. Everywhere is like Ireland in the 90's.

What's the point in highlighting inaccuracies and incorrect assumptions, it's pretty obvious that posters are hell bent on one course of action or the other. Or are sales people hyping up the particular area that they are selling. The only time you'll see ciricism is when these sales people start slagging off each others territory.
 
thomsk said:
I reckon Slovakia looks fairly good - both bratislava and the skiing areas, nr tatra mountains.
...
Anyone who can throw spanners in the works as to investing in slovakia - please do !
Click to expand...
The ski areas in Slovakia are completely hopeless, with just one or two lifts and under-developed facilities. Is that enough? Or are they going to host the winter Olympics in 2014, after Vancouver/Whistler? Nice scenery, but where's the non-weekend customer demand?
 
Howitzer said:
I think you'll find that most nay sayers, like myself, are just astounded by the relentless optimism in these threads and have given up trying. Everywhere's a hub. Everywhere is in / just about to go to a 2nd cycle. Everywhere is like Ireland in the 90's.

What's the point in highlighting inaccuracies and incorrect assumptions, it's pretty obvious that posters are hell bent on one course of action or the other. Or are sales people hyping up the particular area that they are selling. The only time you'll see ciricism is when these sales people start slagging off each others territory.
Click to expand...

Howitzer, I have no interests whatsoever in any of the areas mentioned in this thread. However I am an optimist and I try to approach investing in a logical approach.
Perhaps it would be right to say that many of the best investments strategies and business strategies are built on models that have been previously successfull - ie. the irish model. ie. southwest .
If we are not optimistic in looking for new areas to invest, for the money or even for the excitement of it we are just posting in a troubleshooting forum

I would like to hear any inaccuracies in my assumptions, every day is a school day, and so my interest in the forum...
 
I agree GDE.

I'm not sure what howitzers alternatve is. After all this is a forum specifically for overseas property investment.

WHat else can be expected form this type of forum other than people exchanging opinions on various locations.

LIke - it does say so on the tin !!
 
I agree with much of what you say, Howitzer.

The following 'advantages' to invest in a certain area are totally overused and are not exclusive to any city in CEE:

1. X is the hub of CEE
2. X is just like Ireland was before the boom
3. X is likely to double in price over the next five years
4. X has an educated workforce
5. X has a low cost labour force
 
Howitzer - My sentiments exactly.

My concern is that new investors visit this forum and make rash and inaccurate decisions based upon the sometimes unbalanced and biased reporting / sentiment carried. Hell you couldn't describe us as being the most analytical investors in the world.

There are 2 sides to every story & very few sure things in life. My biggest struggle with overseas property investment is how come the locals aren't snapping these no brainer deals up? I believe Robopaddy & Co. have artificially inflated property markets right across Europe. Given there is little chance of a new generation of Irish punter arriving on the scene any time soon many current investors will unfortunately be left with losses.

I agree with Budapest that there may be some exceptions to this but if you're not obtaining at least break even position (net of tax & expenses) on a monthly basis why would you bother? You can earn 5 - 6% on call from Rabobank without the headache?

I feel sorry for amateur Irish investors who have invested anywhere overseas with minimum deposit in the last few years.

I think our 10 year love affair with all things property is rapidly drawing to a conclusion.
 
Mrs.B said:
...if you're not obtaining at least break even position (net of tax & expenses) on a monthly basis why would you bother? You can earn 5 - 6% on call from Rabobank without the headache?
Click to expand...

I completely disagree with the above.

SUrely you are forgetting about the most fundamental aspect of investing in property. i.e. gearing.

And also - I would also disagree with being unwilling to invest in property unless there is a monthly positive cash flow.
SO what if there is a slightly negative cash flow? (Obviously assuming you earn enough money to pay for it out of your salary or whatever)
I think people should view a negative cash flow situation like they do their pension. i.e. It may cost you on a month to month basis today but in the long run it will produce the returns?
 
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