BoSI has sold its mortgages to Tanager Ltd, a vulture fund

S

SANTA10

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Hi there,

I received a letter on Monday from Bank of Scotland Ireland to say that my mortgage (which is in arrears) has been transferred to a company called Tanager Ltd. Has anyone received a similar letter or does anyone have any information about this company - Tanager Ltd.
 
Hi Santa

Could you email me a copy of this letter? My email address is brendan at this site.

Are they selling your mortgage?

Or are they handing over the admin to them?

If they have sold your mortgage, you are no longer covered by the CCMA, the MARP , or the Ombudsman.
 
Thanks got that

It seems pretty clear to me.

"Bank of Scotland have agreed to transfer the above mortgage loan agreement with you to Tanager Ltd"

Your mortgage has been sold.

It appears that Tanager is an affiliate of "Apollo Global Management "

http://www.agm.com/Home.aspx

I haven't heard of them before. They appear to be a vulture fund. They have been very busy raising funds recently.

I doubt very much if they are regulated in Ireland.

So how will you be affected?

You continue to be covered by your contract and by the Consumer Credit Act.

However, you lose the protection of the Central Bank and Financial Services Ombudsman.

They will be interested in a quick profit. So if you can make them a profit, they will probably go for it.

Let's say you have a mortgage of €200k on a property worth €100k. They probably paid €80k for the loan. If you agree to sell the house , they will probably be happy to pocket the profit and write off the shortfall.
Brendan
 
The company was formed on 4 December.

The directors are

Seamus O'Croinin of 61 Dublin Road Sutton

And

Peter Maher 167a Strand Road, Sandymount.

who are partners in A& L Goodbody solicitors

I have read the submissions to the CRO and it doesn't seem to say who the shareholders are, which suprises me.
 
The Sunday Times carried a note of this earlier in the month.

Llloyds made a [broken link removed]

€610m of non-performing mortgages were sold for €257m a discount of 58%

That is around 2,000 borrowers losing the protection of the CCMA

LLOYDS BANKING GROUP ANNOUNCES THE SALE OF A PORTFOLIO OF IRISH RETAIL MORTGAGES
Lloyds Banking Group plc (the Group) announces today that it has agreed the sale of a portfolio of non-performing Irish retail mortgages (the Portfolio) to Tanager Limited, an entity affiliated with Apollo Global Management, LLC (NYSE:APO), for a cash consideration of £257 million. The transaction is part of the Group's continued non-core asset reduction programme.

The gross assets subject to the transaction are £610 million. The Portfolio generated losses of £33 million in the year to 31 December 2012. The sale proceeds will be used for general corporate purposes and the transaction, although capital accretive, is not expected to have a material impact on the Group, due to existing provisions taken against these assets.

The transaction is expected to complete in H1 2014.
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I know consumers lose protction but this could actually be good news for those in arrears. Apollo only care about one thing i.e. Return on investment. They have no interest in becoming property owners unless they have to. They bought a portfolio of mortgages in arrears for 42% of the nominal value. This gives them lots of room to negotiate with borrowers on interest rates and principal which benefits the homeowner and still generates a profit for Apollo. Someone like Apollo will deal with the arrears problem in Irish mortgages a lot quicker than the banks will. That can only be good news.
 
I wonder if it's only loans in arrears they are interested in. We paid off €10,000 on our BoSI tracker lately. It'll be worth keeping an eye on developments.
 
Sunny said:
I know consumers lose protction but this could actually be good news for those in arrears. Apollo only care about one thing i.e. Return on investment. They have no interest in becoming property owners unless they have to. They bought a portfolio of mortgages in arrears for 42% of the nominal value. This gives them lots of room to negotiate with borrowers on interest rates and principal which benefits the homeowner and still generates a profit for Apollo. Someone like Apollo will deal with the arrears problem in Irish mortgages a lot quicker than the banks will. That can only be good news.
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Agree. However for those of us who are not in arrears it can be a bit hard to take as we are not getting any deals.
 
it has agreed the sale of a portfolio of non-performing Irish retail mortgages
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I presume a non-performing mortgage is a mortgage of at least 90 days in arrears.

I doubt if trackers which are not in arrears are considered non-performing.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I presume a non-performing mortgage is a mortgage of at least 90 days in arrears.

I doubt if trackers which are not in arrears are considered non-performing.
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Exactly Brendan. Banks can also call a loan non-performing if they have good reason to believe that it won't be paid back in full without selling the underlying collateral no matter how long it is in arrears.

Just because a mortgage might be loss making for a bank doesn't make it non-performing.
 
TRS30 said:
So basically I would need to go into arrears to get a discount on my mortgages?
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TRS30 said:
... for those of us who are not in arrears it can be a bit hard to take as we are not getting any deals.
Click to expand...
Why do you think you would get a deal or a discount? It doesn't look like any of the BoSI customers got a deal - they have had their loans sold to a vulture company which is unregulated and can do what they like within the terms of the loans - so unlikely to be a maximum variable rate for example.

If a customer was severely in arrears but could somehow access cash (from a family member for example), the fund MIGHT do a deal to clear the loan for market value rather than mortgage value.

But they will likely be quick and ruthless in turning a profit - so much more likely to repossess a deliquent mortgage property and sell it for more than book value than try to namby-pamby a deal with individual non-performing mortgage holders who, by definition, shouldn't be able to access sufficient funds to clear their mortgages...
 
TRS30;

Would anyone buy an areears Mortgage book @ 42% of its supposed value, since house values are down more than that in the recession. Therefore they have no equity on already non-performing mortgages.Unlees it is 42% of an alredy written down value?
Am I missing something?
 
Gerry Canning said:
TRS30;

Would anyone buy an areears Mortgage book @ 42% of its supposed value, since house values are down more than that in the recession. Therefore they have no equity on already non-performing mortgages.Unlees it is 42% of an alredy written down value?
Am I missing something?
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Interesting point. It did strike me that the 42% was a very high price, but the press release seemed clear enough


The gross assets subject to the transaction are £610 million.
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Most of Bank of Scotland's home loans were cheap trackers. A lot were interest only for the full term. They were most active during the peak of the market 2005 - 2007.

They did start out lending a maximum of 80% Loan to Value but they relaxed this after a while.

Considering all the above, the term "gross assets" probably does not mean face value of the loans.

Brendan
 
I doubt if they are affiliated to this company they are also called Apollo and are a billionaire outfit.

Very large lucrative contracts for lots of council in the UK

[broken link removed]
 
I am trying to figure out how much this is worth.

Let's assume that the gross value of the loans actually means the nominal value of the loans: €610m.

What is a typically bad case?

Bought a house for €400k at the top of the market.
House price has fallen to €200k.
Mortgage was 90% but they have run up arrears back to 100%.

Tanager paid 42% for this or around €160k.
They will still make a profit.

There will be worse cases - 70% falls in prices, but even these won't lose too much.

What is a good case?

Borrower bought in 2002 for €300k
With an 80% mortgage €240k - interest only so still owes €240k.
House value is €200k (down 30%)
Tanager has paid around €100k for this.
They will make a profit of €100k on this one.

They are not subject to the Mortgage Arrears Code, so the gloves are off.
The Dunne judgment ban on repossessions has been fixed, so they can begin legal proceedings immediately.
It will be dirty. It will be messy. But it will probably still be profitable for them.

What about the performing loans?
Some non-performing loans will become performing once Tanager comes calling.

They will buy a €100k loan @ 1.5% for €42k
Tanager will get a return of 3.5% a year until the loan capital is repaid which will give them a capital profit of €58k.

They may well offer these guys a deal. Refinance the loan elsewhere for a discount of 30%.
 
Is there a chance that BOSI would sell their performing loaning rather than have to pay Certus to manage this book while it winds down over the next 20+ years? They would obviously get more for these, so an up front lump sum as such over the potential to get more over the long term.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I suppose that there is a chance. But again, they would be better off doing deals with the borrowers than selling them at distressed prices.
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I agree however they don't seem to be interested in doing any deals on performing loans (certainly in my situation) so maybe they are in for the long haul.
 
Hi Brendan,

After making our sixth consecutive full monthly repayment we are now eligible to
apply for the recap of any outstanding arrears.

We've contacted Certus in relation to the recent Tanager letter and they are unable to give any guidance or info other than to say Tanager will "contact" us in the coming month(s).

In your experience/opinion how do you see Tanager dealing with our/similar mortgages? Will Tanager coming looking for blood and a quick flip regardless of our recent payment history?

Should we continue to apply for the recap regardless as the mortgage still sits with BOSI until the legals are completed? Is there a possibility BOSI will now keep our mortgage as it is "performing"?

We bought our two bed apartment at the top of the market for €320k, we have made no in-roads towards the principal and have the €19k arrears. Current researched market value of approx €125k. We have no emotional attachment to the property as due to current family size and circumstance we choose to live in modest family appropriate rented accommodation.

We have never been strategic defaulters and want to deal with all our debts in an upfront, honourable manner... Could the Tanager angle be a good thing for our family's financial future?

Thanks.
 
We have never been strategic defaulters and want to deal with all our debts in an upfront, honourable manner.
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Hi BS

While I fully respect and recommend this in the case of a meaningful ongoing relationship with an active lender, the Tanager acquisition of your loan is a purely commercial exercise. You should have no qualms whatsoever about trying to get a good deal on this. Tanager will try to maximise their profits as quickly as possible. You should exploit that. You will not be protected by the Mortgage Arrears Code, and they will exploit that as well.

You have a property worth €120k with a mortgage of €340k. With a normal bank, you should be looking for a deal anyway or, you should be going bankrupt.

We don't know what Tanager's attitude will be but I would guess that they will accept an offer from you to sell the property and will write off the shortfall after it's sold.

I don't think it would be in your interest to have your arrears capitalised. It's possible that it might be excluded from the acquisition in which case you would still be stuck with BoSI/Certus who have been very unresponsive to borrowers in distress. I would also say that people like you who make full repayments may find yourselves at a disadvantage by doing so.
 
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