So it is my opinion that the energy usage is a real concern in the context of it being used as a store of value.
I have to say that the energy use was a red-flag to me for a long while. But here is a conversation between two bitcoin proponents, and from 25mins 30sec on its energy use. Gives pause for thought imo, and touches on elements that tecate referred to.
Bitcoin energy use
Thanks, I agree it does without solving the problem.
The next efficiency issue is the environmental impact, do I want to support a currency that damages the environment more than the Euros in my pocket?
So it is my opinion that the energy usage is a real concern in the context of it being used as a store of value
What is the problem, exactly? You haven't really outlined it, other than bitcoin uses energy?
How does bitcoin damage the environment more than the Euros in your pocket?
You need to elaborate. Using energy is not an issue, it never has been. It is what this planet survives and thrives on. Using energy sources that emit excessive amounts of greenhouse gases that are altering the planets ecosystem is what is of concern.
Why isn't that problem enough? Do you not think the current reliance on fossil fuels is an issue?
What I can point to is the concrete evidence of financial institutions / governments commiting to becoming carbon neutral.
I'm not aware that the EU uses a fraction of the energy to print a euro that costs to mine one BTC. That again is logical given BTC is mined through solving algorithms and euros are printed via keystrokes.
Ok, there is a lot to pack in there so bear with me a little.
Of course it is an issue, as I mentioned it is has been a red-flag with me for a time.
However, I'm also minded that the extent that bitcoin relies on fossils fuels is nothing more than a mere drop in the ocean of the overall global reliance on fossil fuels.
It could be argued, why add to it?
So you've a concern but your attitude is it's not important because everyone else uses fossil fuels
No not at all, quite the opposite. It's the fake concern of others with regard to use of fossil fuels for bitcoin and not much else.
There is an easy answer to this, governments can ban the use of fossil fuels tomorrow, or impose draconian taxes and tariffs on their use.
Everyone and everything, including bitcoin mining, can move to clean renewable energy sources or die.
In a topic of BTC we can't raise the issue of energy usage as a concern because everyone else uses fossil fuels?
?? But the issue has been raised!
As I have mentioned before, it has been a concern of mine.
I have proposed a solution, ban the use of fossil uses for generating energy or impose draconian taxes and tariffs on them.
What do you think?
I'm not sure how your solution solves the issue of BTC as to yours and other posters BTC is decentralised and thus not mandated to adhere to global initiatives.
Bitcoin miners don't mine fossil fuels.
Bitcoin miners don't mine fossil fuels.
So my solution is to make fossil fuels cost prohibitive by either making it illegal to source and use, and/or impose draconian taxes and tariffs on it.
That way, everyone and everything, including bitcoin miners, can move to using clean, renewable energy resources or die.
What do you think?
The Paris Climate accord, while a welcome step in the right direction, has already had its vulnerabilities exposed not least by the USAs withdrawal under Trump.
The PCA is a result of at least 50yrs, or more, of scientific knowledge identifying and warning of the consequences to the planets echo-system of excessive CO2 emissions into the environment.
Bitcoin is just over a decade old, its energy consumption becoming of some concern maybe 6,7 yrs ago?
Already, as @tecate highlights above, we see evidence of innovation to utilise wasted energy and clean renewables. That is because bitcoin miners need to economise to survive and thrive.
But if you can just keystroke a trillion $ here, and a trillion $ there into existence, to sustain consumption of goods and services already reliant of fossil fuel energy, what will be the impact on our environment?
Governments and financial institutions are laggers when it comes to addressing climate change. They are the fat pigs in the room that need the most effort to shift to do anything. It is why the Paris Climate Accord has taken so long to emerge.
You've ignored my point. In your solution which obviously would work, my question was why would BTC miners have to follow that ban? You've made the argument that BTC is decentralised and not controlled by any government, given it is governments that would instigate the ban, surely then the BTC network would not be impacted?
What has been posted has been novel solutions that have not yet moved into production. Again you present an attitude that any government / corporation cannot evolve and is the problem.
Have you actually looked at the disagreements within the bitcoin industry that have stalled the evolution over the years?
I haven't ignored anything. I proposed a solution that would effectively shutdown the fossil fuel industry. You appear to agree?
If the fossil fuel industry is no longer operating, why would bitcoin miners try to continue source and use energy from fossil fuels? It would be cost prohibitive, instead they could just plug into the clean renewable energy sources that have replaced fossil fuel.
I have not argued that governments / corporations cannot change. I have argued that they are slow to change, evidenced by the existing scientific data that has for 50yrs or more identified and warned of the impact of global warming, culminating in the Paris Accord which is susceptible to implementation, depending on who is charge of government at any given time.
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