Bidding authenticity

K

Kibbs

Guest
Hi, I am a naive first time house buyer. I recently put in a bid for a house that had been on the market for 2 months without anyone putting an offer in. On the day I put an offer in another bidder came forward with a higher amount. The resulting bid against bid added €10,000 to my original offer.

Is there anyway to verify that the other bidder actually exists ? I'm concerned that the auctioneers may have sensed my eagerness to buy and bluffed about another bidder that may not have existed. Can I get proof that the bid was genuine and not just an attempt by the estate agent to get a higher commission ?
 
I advertised an item in the paper last week. I only had one caller who was trying to bargain me well down.....naturally.

I created a fictitious "other party" to keep the price up.

It worked. I was paid what the buyer thought it was worth, not what he thought he could get it for.

An auctioneer can do exactly the same thing.
 
There are no regulations on bidding - Given that bids are non-binding, there is no point in checking the veracity of the bidder, as the bidder can simply pull out at any stage before contracts are signed.

Bid what the property is worth to you.
 
I recently put in a bid for a house that had been on the market for 2 months without anyone putting an offer in. On the day I put an offer in another bidder came forward with a higher amount. The resulting bid against bid added €10,000 to my original offer.
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it sounds a little suspitious to me .


Is there anyway to verify that the other bidder actually exists ?
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no way in the world
I'm concerned that the auctioneers may have sensed my eagerness to buy and bluffed about another bidder that may not have existed.
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there' s blood in the water and the sharks can smell it.

Can I get proof that the bid was genuine and not just an attempt by the estate agent to get a higher commission ?
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the estate agents agenda is to get the highest offer for what they are selling and they will use any tactic to get the best price and commission

i have no faith in estate agents and there should be more transparency in the industry.
how can an industry police itself ?

put a time limit on your bid (honnest one ) and withdraw it at the time set by you , you will feel somewhat in charge.

good luck

mikeyny
 
We were selling a property recently and were told there were two groups interested.One of the bidders eventually won and we now have sale agreed.The other couple then contacted us directly to see if it was a genuine sale which it seems to be.They were also of the same opinion,that there was no mysterious second bidder.In your case however having no second bid for two months and then for it to appear suddenly is a bit unusual.
 
Hi Kibbs,

It does sound very very dodgy alright and based on my own experience, and that of people I know, and many people on here, it really seems that estate agents do not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I had bid on 13 properties and had been sale agreed and gazumped twice before I found my place, and along the way I encountered all sorts of scams and lies from estate agents. By the end of it I was in no mood for their sh*t and put in an offer 15k under the price the house was previously sale agreed at buyers had split up, but due to the state the house was in there were no other bidders and so I wasn't going paying an inflated price. I told the estate agent I had a second viewing the next day on another house that was my first choice house and would be making an offer on it then and so my offer would be withdrawn at that time if not accepted. Agent came back looking for another 10k, I said '2.5k if its accepted within the hour otherwise the original offer stands till lunchtime'. Deal done in 30 minutes.

The message here is that while they perceive you as a soft touch they will squeeze you, but if you manage to come across as serious but copped on and not desperate they will know trying to squeeze you is riskier and will be less likely to try it unless they genuinely do have other bidders to fall back on. Ask yourself 'if I was an estate agent would I try to take me for a sucker?'.

None of this removes from the fact that the general level of estate agent behaviour is despicable and a regulator should be installed immediately. Sinewave - just because coming up with false bids increases a price does not make it acceptable. And no, it is not capitalising on the free market - it is unfair and unethical manipulation of the free market. If large corporations were allowed to issue false profit forecasts along the lines of 'hey look at all the money we're gonna make, we're a good deal for you - buy our shares' the world economy would be thrown into chaos (see Enron for example). For this reason the financial sector is highly regulated to restrict such activity and it seems the government has finally realised that the property market is a multi-billion euro industry in which there is currently no real regulation and they are going to do something about that asap.

Sorry for the rant but this topic really pi**es me off. Kibbs, good luck with it, and be prepared to play hardball right back at them - worst case you lose the house and approach the next deal with a bit more experience, and despite what you might convince yourself, unless you are in the 500k plus end of the market where houses might actually be unique, there IS another very similar, perhaps better house out there for you (as it turned out for me - I'm glad I didn't end up getting either of the first two houses), and at least you'll walk away knowing you didn't play the chump.
 
Thanks for the response guys. The estate agent got back today to say that the other bidder had withdrawn (surprise surprise) so the house is mine if I want it. In a nutshell, the asking price was €200,000. I put in a cheeky bid of €173,000 (after the agent told me they thought €175,000 would be accepted)at which point the other 'bidder' came on the scene with €175,000. Went back to me at €177, counter bid was €180 and I finished it at €182,000. I would have gone to €185,000 so I am within budget and well below the asking price (which was greatly over priced at 200 K) but I'll always wonder if the other person actually existed. I do strongly agree with Pinchy, I would love to see a regulatory body put in place for peace of mind.

The ball is back in my court now so I will take things at my pace and not be rushed to get things closed. They wanted the booking deposit today but I told them that they would get it at my convenience in a week or so (I want the weekend to think things through). Also I am going to arrange a thorough survey and have been told by friends that I can re negotiate the price based on any negatives found. Because it's my first house I am in no rush to buy so if it does fall through I can put it down to experience as Pinchy suggests.

Thanks again for your thoughts guys, much appreciated.

Kibbs
 
see here for more on the topic of ghostbidding. it goes on wholesale and the only way to combat it is to play hardball on your own terms and set firm time limits for any bids you put in.
 
Kibbs said:
Thanks for the response guys. The estate agent got back today to say that the other bidder had withdrawn (surprise surprise) so the house is mine if I want it. In a nutshell, the asking price was €200,000. I put in a cheeky bid of €173,000 (after the agent told me they thought €175,000 would be accepted)at which point the other 'bidder' came on the scene with €175,000. Went back to me at €177, counter bid was €180 and I finished it at €182,000. I would have gone to €185,000 so I am within budget and well below the asking price (which was greatly over priced at 200 K) but I'll always wonder if the other person actually existed. I do strongly agree with Pinchy, I would love to see a regulatory body put in place for peace of mind.

The ball is back in my court now so I will take things at my pace and not be rushed to get things closed. They wanted the booking deposit today but I told them that they would get it at my convenience in a week or so (I want the weekend to think things through). Also I am going to arrange a thorough survey and have been told by friends that I can re negotiate the price based on any negatives found. Because it's my first house I am in no rush to buy so if it does fall through I can put it down to experience as Pinchy suggests.

Thanks again for your thoughts guys, much appreciated.

Kibbs
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sounds like anything you bidded over €173 was because of the other (non-existant) bidder... i'd go back to €173 , see what happens...
 
jhegarty said:
sounds like anything you bidded over €173 was because of the other (non-existant) bidder... i'd go back to €173 , see what happens...
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I agree 100%. Why pay the extra €12K. It sounds like the vendors are desperate to sell. You now have the upper hand and I would press home your advantage. At the very least I would come down to €177 or €178...
 
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