Best 6th Year Location for very unmotivated student

Hi There,
Our brother is currently in 5th year and is doing very badly, hates school, is very lazy and totally unmotivated despite having delusions of getting into college and into courses that have very high points.

We are considering paying for him to do 6th year somewhere else (he is currently in a loacal community school) if he can apply himself and improve before the end of the year.

We are not sure though where would be a good place to send him as he will not be good left to his own devices, and will need to be monitored and guided.

Does anyone have any experience of this? I read on another post that the Institute may not be good for unmotivated students with the 90 min classes where you are on your own,

Any suggestions welcome,

Thanks

J

Why would you think that paying for a private education would improve the situation?

I agree with rainyday to an extent. If he's not motivated this may not help at all, and be a big waste of money. What does he say about the idea?
Would he agree to working hard from now with the prospect of a congratulatory holiday after the results (bribery, yes, I live with small children )
In the meantime you could offer to pay for grinds, 2 subjects per term, and maybe send him to one of the cram colleges at Christmas or Easter?

I was a good student in my time and fairly motivated, and went to Leeson Street for the Christmas cram week (?). I found it fantastic, the standard of teaching and the notes were way better than my convent school.

You can pay all the money you like, if he's not motivated you are wasting your time....if he genuinely feels that he will get better points in a fee-paying school or a crammer (and to be fair if he is prepared to put in the work, the crammers can make a difference) then he won't mind getting a summer job and contributing towards the cost.

I wouldn't go for an external motivator (holiday or whatever); far better to get him to do some research on what he might do if he doesn't get the points he needs for his first choice. That will a) make sure he has a back up plan and b) possibly open his eyes to the fact that he needs to pull his socks up.

If you don't mind my asking - how do your parents feel about him changing schools?

I reckon you should urge him to get a very hard manual job over the summer; see would he like that sort of life for the next 50yrs... he should cop on to himself after that....

(sorry, I know it's harsh, but I have very little time for people who are simply too lazy, whilst those around them, such as yourself, are doing their very best to help out)

pernickety said:

I was a good student in my time and fairly motivated, and went to Leeson Street for the Christmas cram week (?). I found it fantastic, the standard of teaching and the notes were way better than my convent school.

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From what I can gather from my daughter it is still exactly the same. The quality of teaching is public schools is too erratic and not open to scutiny. I've heard kids often saying "oh we have been allocated Mr or Ms xxx so we've no chance of doing honours". And where problems are raised with schools the principles often say that there's very little they can do about teacher absence etc.

One example - a teacher in my daughters school is never available for meet parents who might want to complain. Several have tried with no success, this teacher ALWAYS goes sick the week of PT meetings - I don't think they would get away with that in private education?

Roy

Some subjects are conducive to autodidacticism. We had a waster of a teacher (he's still there after all these years) who spent most of our Biology classes running a sideline business and shooting the breeze. Myself and a few others decided that we'd be better off just learning the stuff ourselves. With LC Biology it was really just a case of reading the book. I think I got a B in Higher Level Biology as a result of this approach. Some other subjects may not be so conducive to such an approach but it may be an option. Of course it requires motivation so might not suit lazy/unmotivated individuals. That's a separate problem.

onekeano said:

One example - a teacher in my daughters school is never available for meet parents who might want to complain. Several have tried with no success, this teacher ALWAYS goes sick the week of PT meetings - I don't think they would get away with that in private education?

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They probably would get away with in in private education also; it depends on the school's management. have you raised this with the headteacher?

Diziet said:

They probably would get away with in in private education

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The vast majority of Irish schools are privately owned and run (usually by religious institutions) even if they are state funded. I presume you mean private and fee paying education?

My opinion is that motivated students focus on what they want to do post LC and then work to achieve it - a whole lot of factors are at play especially the attitude/work ethic of friends. I have seen very few, if any, motivated students do poory in the LC due to a "bad" teacher.

I beg to differ; I firmly believe that individual teachers can have a huge impact on outcomes.

Years ago, I taught for a while in one of the 'better', très-exclusive, 'top dollar' fee-paying schools in South County Dublin, and couldn't believe some of the dysfunctional/incompetent teachers I saw there. They were in a minority, granted, but some of them had been in situ for 20 or 30 years, and I saw no sign of any attempt by the management to remove them or 'sideline' them, although I suspect they must have been pretty notorious. I'd wager that any kid in their classes who managed to muddle through that subject in the Leaving Cert. — which IMHO was a lot more demanding, back then — did so only because their parents were in a position to throw thousands of pounds into expensive private tuition.

Teaching is a funny kind of game, with all sorts of inbuilt frustrations. If 'your' students do well, you can't honestly measure how much of that is down to the quality of your own teaching, as opposed to what they brought with them or got elsewhere. If they don't, of course, you run the risk of being blamed for that, whether or not it's 'your' fault. Good teachers go unrewarded, and largely unrecognised, and the bad 'uns get away with murder. In any kind of school...

But I digress...

To the OP, I can only offer the following —
(a) Throwing money at the problem will not necessarily produce the desired outcome. It sounds to me like a 'motivation problem', and you can only lead a horse to water, etc.
(b) Kildrought is right about this, but — reading (blindly) between the lines, and open to correction — I'm guessing that maybe your parents are no longer around, and you're left in charge of the estate? If you've had a recent bereavement, then
(c) ...my condolences, firstly. Your brother may have bigger problems to work through than the points he gets in his Leaving Cert. If I'm way off the mark here, then — and perhaps in any case —
(d) take CGorman's 'tough love' advice!

My parents sent my very unmotivated brother to a grind school a couple of years ago in the hope that he might do well in the LC. He didn't want to stay in the school that he was in and felt that a change might be what he needed to motivate him. But, the work was never done and he got a very poor LC. He did go to college but dropped out. Worked for a few years on odd jobs. Then decided to go back to college again but like the first time he dropped out again. At this stage he doesn't have a career plan. All the family have tried to help out and motivate him/advice etc. But sometimes people just don't have that motivation, even though they realise they will have fewer options.

yeah-- I read the first poster (janice's) worry about the brother and thought-what he needs to motivate him is to FAIL the LC !!!! But we all know he's only in 5th yr and could well get up and do something wonderful to help himself next year when LC gets very near....then if/when he fails or does badly-maybe he should get himself a job, and definitely get a job for this summer, as suggested above. College no doubt would suit this kind of kid much better when he grows up at about aged 23. There is no way to rush maturity in some kids!!! I totally agree a fee-paying school would not necessarily suit this young man. Hold on to your money -he will need it to repeat the LC or to go back to college at aged 23!
Is there any possibility he could be depressed? need to see Dr? How about nutrition? any fear he may be on drugs--making him withdrawn and unmotivated? that's all the other side of this issue. good Luck to you janice and your brother whatever happens!