That’s a hell of an unsubstantiated claim.If they want to do something other than push the government around to take more money from the poor, sick and vulnerable for their middle and upper income members and perpetuate waste that kills people in the health service then yes, it would be useful if they moved out of their bunker and actually did what they say they are there to do.
It’s hilarious to think that unions feel they should have a foot in the door of every employer in the country.It’s absolutely hilarious to think that people feel that more should be done for low paid workers when effectively such workers are sidelined by the State who legislate that although such workers can join a Union their employers can refuse to negotiate with such Unions.
A Catch - 22 situation which hopefully will not continue indefinitely.
If people are dying due to lack of resources then those who actively obstruct reform, improvements in efficiency, improvements in accountability, improvements in standards and better allocation of resources have to shoulder a big part of the blame.That’s a hell of an unsubstantiated claim.
I’m no fan of unions as they’re currently constructed but it’s some leap to say they’re directly responsible for deaths.
They only exist to act on behalf of their members. The same goes for IBEC and ISME and the IFA and every other vested interest group. They have zero role in improving civil society and none of them should be given any oxygen or air time to pretend they do.I think the union movement could play a stronger role in improving society but they ultimately exist to act on behalf of their members.
True but that doesn't reduce the harm they do.If their influence is too strong, that’s not their fault.
Also true, in most cases, but when the State is the employer then essential services suffer, the citizens relationship with the State suffers, and those who need the social infrastructure the State provides suffer most.Employers tend to get the unions they deserve.
I don't want to run any vested interest group. I want to see their insidious and poisonous influence reduced and the elected Parliament of the county and the Government they elect actually running the country.Hmmmmmmmmm! Amazing how many non trade union members want to run trade unions.
Look at your posts. Of course, you want to run everything.I don't want to run any vested interest group. I want to see their insidious and poisonous influence reduced and the elected Parliament of the county and the Government they elect actually running the country.
No, I want competent people who will act in the national interest to run things. I don't qualify under any of those requirements.Look at your posts. Of course, you want to run everything.
The Taliban are saying this too. But, at least one can negotiate with them.No, I want competent people who will act in the national interest to run things. I don't qualify under any of those requirements.
They did achieve a massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the middle-class so as far as their mandate goes they did a brilliant job of representing their members.Notwithstanding the improv in the industrial relations climate that followed, I think the overwhelming sense of members was that they were sold down the river and that the heads of unions became part of the establishment they were supposed to disrupt. In my opinion, they became bloated and lazy. They presented 1% pay rises as achievements they’d ‘negotiated’.
Yes, they are a proper Union. They stymied reform for 14 years and ended up with very high rates of pay along with absolutely no accountability to their employers for their members. Job done. A massive amount of human suffering caused but it's not their job to worry about that.Some unions (such as those representing medical consultants) seem to be quite a bit more active and assertive. You may not agree with them or condone the impact they’re having on the rest of us but at least they know why they exist.
I won't argue with Salvadore as what he says is true. I joined the Public Service in 1970 where on Day One I realised that I was out of my depth in a modernising age with dinosaur thinking and that was only the junior management. If you wore a sports jacket, sleeveless pullover and black shoes with steel tipped heels and could move six pints of Arthur Guinness at lunchtime you'd have no work problems and would be promoted almost automatically on the death or retirement of a colleague. Times change but the PS/CS moved slower than the times.I was in a public sector union for over 30 years. I’ve also dealt with them from a manager’s perspective.
As a young guy back in the 80s, it was amusing to see the local rep organise a walk-out because the office temperature had fallen marginally below agreed limits.
As I got a bit older and a bit more responsible, I saw my union buy into various social partnership agreements which were sold to members on the basis of being in their long term interest.
Notwithstanding the improv in the industrial relations climate that followed, I think the overwhelming sense of members was that they were sold down the river and that the heads of unions became part of the establishment they were supposed to disrupt. In my opinion, they became bloated and lazy. They presented 1% pay rises as achievements they’d ‘negotiated’ fiercely.
Threatened walk outs for low temperatures are now a thing of the distant past. Union reps are hard to get because most people either couldn’t be bothered or don’t see it as a good career move. Those who eventually take on the job are either acting in self interest or are just the ’bolshie’ type who would start an argument with themselves. They’re the unreasonable types who stir the proverbial just because they can.
Some unions (such as those representing medical consultants) seem to be quite a bit more active and assertive. You may not agree with them or condone the impact they’re having on the rest of us but at least they know why they exist.
Things were so sad (I can't think of a better word) before I represented any union member I asked for a written summary of the problem.
The decline in Union membership has not see a decline in the pay and very generous expenses and pension benefits of the Union hierarchy.All the evidence shows that the decline of unions has coincided with a massive rise in wealth inequality.
It's not that there isn't enough profit, its that the profit is being hoarded by fewer and fewer people.
Capitalists are so dumb, they actually have to rescued by unions and labour parties, from their own demise.
Share the wealth guys, or it'll be tumbrel time.
Excellent post by Peanuts20 and I've got to say that as a participant in a GAA club and as a former trade union rep more got achieved at "meetings that never took place" than at real meetings.I used to have to deal with unions in previous roles. Mostly they were fine and I've seen an experienced union rep stop an inexperienced or just stupid manager making a fool of themselves and making an issue worse by pointing out the error of their ways. I've also sat in union discussions and watched the full time union officials slam their books shut and walk out of the meeting angrily that some of their members were at. As i've escorted them to the door, it was not uncommon for them to mention to me quietly that they would be up the road in a coffee shop or pub and to pop up there in half an hour and we'd sort out a deal quietly. In effect, it was a show but we always got a deal done.
They are also very useful for "stating the obvious" and confirming things like rights under TUPE where staff may not believe the management, even though what the management may be stating is the law of the land.
I also can't help but think what would have happened in the 1970's if UIster Bank said they were closing back then. It would have been a nationwide bank strike. How times change.
I've had employees complain that they had to pay for their own prescription safety glasses. I tell them that they don't have to and if they give me a receipt I'll give them a cheque for the cost. I also point out that not only is it company policy but it's the law. I then tell them that we'll also pay for hearing tests but that I'm not a mind reader so unless they ask they won't get.Nice comment too about union officials who kept some members of management from making fools of themselves - more important than first thoughts.
as a former trade union rep more got achieved at "meetings that never took place" than at real meetings.
As a young guy back in the 80s, it was amusing to see the local rep organise a walk-out because the office temperature had fallen marginally below agreed limits.
As I got a bit older and a bit more responsible, I saw my union buy into various social partnership agreements which were sold to members on the basis of being in their long term interest.
I think that at a macro level the conversation is over. The Unions did a great job back in the day and won the battles that needed to be won.The bigger issue is that I just think most workers don't have the appetite or interest in walk-outs or strikes anymore. Maybe this is cultural, maybe staff are just treated better, maybe they are more bought in to the corporate point of view. I can't see this changing anytime soon.
There is much truth in what Purple says, but there are exceptions and hence the need for trade unions today. Back in the 1970's, 1980's and even the 1990's where I worked there was a call-to-arms nearly every month. These calls were usually because of some internal promoted (largely less educated) people sabre rattling where a staff chat would have resolved the issues. More educated and qualified people are in management now and most that can be settled easily is settled. The troops are more educated and qualified also.I think that at a macro level the conversation is over. The Unions did a great job back in the day and won the battles that needed to be won.
The things they looked for are now enshrined in law. The reason that most people in the private sector aren't in Unions is because they know that.
It's the same reason why women aren't in the Suffragettes any more. Most women (and men) are interested in equality but know that the big battles have been won and now it's about culture and compliance.
I’ve no desire to be a bus driver but when I’m in one or sharing the road with one I have an interest in what the driver of said bus it doing and now competent they are.Hmmmmmmmmm! Amazing how many non trade union members want to run trade unions.
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