Benchmarking payments will sink economy, STOP now!

Expenses incurred

Most companies have a set rate for mileage etc which they update each year, ditto for sustenance allowances, overnight allowances etc. American companies are particularly good for this. I know through personal experience.

I have to be honest here, you don't seem to know a whole lot about the public service benefits. I can assure you that compared to any good company, there's no huge difference. The only benefit I have I here that I haven't had in other companies (private, Irish and US) is flexi time, which is no big deal and is being introduced in many companies now as its a good idea. Other stuff which we have spoken about in the preceding posts are becoming the norm in any good company. I worked for a US company in the west which forbade unions but still have better benefits that the Public Service. I know there are many companies which treat their workers badly but these should be pulled up rather than trying to pull the rest down.

Can we get back to talking about benchmarking please? My personal masseur is due in as soon as I've finished my report on comfy chairs so I don't know who much time I can spend talking to you outsiders...

Re: Expenses incurred

I agree with Curvy that many of the benefits mentioned by others (flexitime, career breaks, subsistence allowances) are available in the private sector too, though practices vary from company to company. I think the real issues that differentiate private sector & public sector are;

- job security [One public service HR manager said to me 'unless they run up & kick the minister in the crotch, they really can't be fired']
- strong defined benefits pension [while not unique to public service, these are become rarer in the private sector]
- performance measurement

Re: Expenses incurred

- performance measurement

As far as I know most, if not all, public service departments and organisations now employ the to assess and measure individual performance.

Re: Expenses incurred

CM is correct. This system require employees to clearly define their role profile and duties and have these agreed to by their line manager. Deviate from these and it comes up in review. Its part of the social partnership agreement that this system is implemented and therefore the pay rises etc can be stopped in individual cases if an employee is a lazy git. And rightly so.

As regards the pension, its a good pension with fairly big contributions from the employees, so no free lunch there either, although it has to be said that its a good deal.

I still don't buy the job security thing. I've been in the job for less than a year so I'm still thinking like a private sector employee. Its more secure but nothing in life is completely secure and its a foolish person who believes that they can bank on a job for life. Like any other job, if you screw up you get to know about it, so screw up continuously and you'll soon be seeking other employment.

So back to the debate, are benchmarking payments justified? Some of them are pretty big but I haven't crunched the numbers re Private Vs Public pay rates. I'm sure some of the payments may actually show parity, particularly in the lower paid positions (and some of them are quite low) and I'm sure some of them are out by a mile. I'm sure benchmarking will be used to explain away all the country's woes at some stage, along with the SSIAs, but there a huge factors besides these that are keeping the 80/20 rule enforced.

Re: Expenses incurred

...its a foolish person who believes that they can bank on a job for life

Click to expand...

Well if that's the case, there are a lot of 'foolish people' in State companies, at least judging by the fact that compensation for loss of 'jobs for life' (or whatever name they put on it) has been demanded by public sector unions on behalf of their members whenever redundancies (and/or even privatisation plans) have been mooted or implemented in Bord na Mona, TEAM Aer Lingus and most recently Aer Rianta.

So back to the debate, are benchmarking payments justified? Some of them are pretty big but I haven't crunched the numbers re Private Vs Public pay rates.

Click to expand...

Problem is, neither have the Benchmarking Body, or if they have, they have refuse to disclose the grounds on which they calculated the various awards - which leaves us all pretty much in the dark as to how justified or otherwise the awards were.

our money

Seeing as its ALL our money, should it not be transparent and published ? Also, how do we know the sector performed any better than last year - there are plenty of indexes (benchmarks) of the private sector ?

Re: Expenses incurred

Hi Curvy - I think they key issue is whether 'merit' pay awards and/or bonuses are truly based on improved performance or 'above & beyond' performance. Anecdotal evidence would tell me that this is not the case. Do you have any interesting stories 'from the inside' or is there any empirical evidence on this point.

Similarly, how many people are fired from the public service each year? I'd love to be able to compare this to the private sector. Again, anecdotal evidence tells me that it is an extremely rare event for someone to be fired in the public service.

Re: Expenses incurred

I think they key issue is whether 'merit' pay awards and/or bonuses are truly based on improved performance or 'above & beyond' performance. Anecdotal evidence would tell me that this is not the case. Do you have any interesting stories 'from the inside' or is there any empirical evidence on this point

That query could equally be turned around and directed at private sector appraisal schemes. In my c. 15 years working as a software engineer in a variety of different companies my experience has been that appraisal procedures (where they are actually put in place and executed) are generally a pointless exercise with no real bearing on people's work, behaviour, salary reviews etc.

performance

I have worked in 4 different multinationals and my salary was directly related to my performance review, not only that - peers also reviewed my work and had some input to my performance report. I always has goals going forward and milestones to meet. There were set and reviewed, and rated below,meeting or exeeding expectation. So, my experience of the private sector has been you earn your money - its the real world and that's the way it should be. If you lag behind, fail to deal with an issue, lack initaitive or dissappoint a customer - then you are 'out'. Are public sector customers happy with the product and value for money.. ? personally I would out source the whole thing !

benchmarking

Repo

How would you performance rate a nurse working in a public hospital? What criteria would you like to see applied.

..

I'm not a doctor etc., but it would be in the best interest of the nurse is they could gauge their performance, even for the sake of improving in your profession, in the health system I believe it is the management/existing structures of spending that has performace and value for money issues..

Re: ..

Hi Dr Dr - How does the nurse manager know whether the nurse has done a good job today or a bad job today?

Re: ..

I'm not an expert on quality assurance processes and procedures but there are ways in which performance can be measured and assessed quite fairly and efficiently in what are termed the "caring professions" and indeed all employments

For example, for nurses...
- reviews of standards of record-keeping e.g. documentation maintained on each hospital patient, medicines given out, notes provided for doctor's or consultant's attention etc
- reviews of incident reports that are compiled each time a serious incident occurs
- establishing and reviewing standards of technical training, inservice and professional development courses undertaken to update the nurse's professional skills etc

For teachers...
- reviews of teachers journal records outlining the course content covered on each day/week/term with each class
- review of records of complaints/incidents kept by the teacher on an ongoing basis
- training and courses etc as above.

The theory of quality assurance is that if a system is set up to monitor and record all relevant events and actions by the professional (which is needed anyway these days to protect against any potential litigation) it should in itself guarantee that a certain minimum level standard of professionalism is being followed at all times. Failures or deviations from the standard will generally reflect weakenesses or actual under-performance.

Re: ..

Here's another crazy idea - Why not rate teachers/nurses/doctors/gardai based on feedback from their students/patients/patients/crime victims respectively?

Re: ..

Feedback from "customers" (defined in the widest possible way) is an integral part of most if not all performance measurement systems.

.....

Don't forgot to include, the Taoiseach, Tanaiste, Ministers, TDs senators, DPP, judges, social workers, librarians, dentists, physiotherapists, pharmacists, speech therapists, occupational therapists, consultants, pathologists etc...........

Feedback mechanisms

Don't forgot to include, the Taoiseach, Tanaiste, Ministers, TDs senators . .

Click to expand...

Don't we feedback on these guys at least once every five years, through an election ?

The public sector unions will fight any element of change, such as performance measurement, tooth and nail, just look at SIPTU's reaction to changes in Aer Rianta or CIE.

There is little point talking about getting value from the civil service, when the Government will just capitulate to the union lobby.

Little Point

It's not just the government that capitulated. Weren't IBEC involved as well? They're now crying for someone to close the doors but the BMarking horse is well an truly gone.

C.

Stressed out

As a friend of mine put it "We're paying top dollar for a bunch of people to sit around drinking tea, doing their aerobics or on career breaks...", How often have you seen a stressed out person at you local county council..?

Stressed out

"We're paying top dollar for a bunch of people ......on career breaks..."

By definition your not paying anything at all to someone on a career break