Duke of Marmalade
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Purple I think we should avoid angels on pins territory. "The jurisdiction of the ECJ" has sweet fanny adam to do with the constitutional position of NI within the UK. The folk on the Shankill Road are not upset about any influence the ECJ may have on their lives, trust me, I know the mindset.The Good Friday Agreement is a Constitutional Document and it ties NI law to the ECJ. Brexit, and the move away from recognising the jurisdiction of the ECJ changed the constitutional position of NI.
It does change the constitutional position of Northern Ireland though, whether they care or not.Purple I think we should avoid angels on pins territory. "The jurisdiction of the ECJ" has sweet fanny adam to do with the constitutional position of NI within the UK. The folk on the Shankill Road are not upset about any influence the ECJ may have on their lives, trust me, I know the mindset.
Yes, hence my comment that Unionism is defined by what it isn't.But Wolfie does highlight a certain paradox. Why are these loyalists so dismissive of the will of Her Majesty's government? The answer is that their primary driving passion is not to be British, there is even a Red Hand faction in favour of independence. Their all consuming passion is to never, never, never be Irish. I'm afraid both SF/IRA and the Paisleyites are equally to blame for that.
An ROI protocol was a much more logical consequence of existing constitutional arrangements.
The folk on the Shankill Road are not upset about any influence the ECJ may have on their lives
Their all consuming passion is to never, never, never be Irish. I'm afraid both SF/IRA and the Paisleyites are equally to blame for that.
The sea border operates as you say, with by definition nobody being anywhere near the border. The same could have applied to a land border.So the sea border was invented. A reasonable compromise. Nobody lives in the sea, nobody works in the sea, it is a wholly abstract concept. All that it means is that some customs and trade regulations be applied between GB and NI. The paperwork being carried out by... customs officials... who are paid and trained for this sort of thing, so they should not be overly aghast at checking more forms (might even be a pay rise in for them?)
The same could have applied to a land border.
So much so that the prospect of a border poll is a time bomb not just for the six counties but for the whole of Ireland.
Without wanting to reinvent the wheel, how would a land border have worked? I'm pretty sure that ample opportunity was afforded to show how it would work but no workings ever came forward?
Oh please Wolfie. Equality and rights! Do you realise how OTT that is? Rights to what? For the 0.1% posers who want to speak to public servants in Irish? Once upon a time a long time ago, catholics in NI found it hard to get on in the NI civil service just as people here with the wrong address find it now. Please tell me what terrible deprivation of rights they now suffer.I wonder what the womens suffragette movement would have achieved if it held this view? Or any other struggle for equality and rights?
EVERYONE knows full well that there are readily available electronic solutions to the border issue.
Rights to what?
At the beginning of the last century the American Suffragette movement stopped black women participating in their marches because they thought that it would weaken their case and it wasn't the right time for that discussion.The perpetual "now is not the right time".
I wonder what the womens suffragette movement would have achieved if it held this view? Or any other struggle for equality and rights?
It's true to say that as a cohort middle aged white men have never really changed anything since they have created what is the status quo. The richer they are the less likely they are to want change.I think you missed the point, being, what would any rights based movement - women's, civil rights, same-sex marriage, abortion, workers, et al... have achieved if from the outset the mindset was of "now is not the right time", " it will upset those who cannot tolerate change".
I think you missed my point. SF/IRA are not pursuing a rights based movement. They are seeking sectarian triumphalism.I think you missed the point, being, what would any rights based movement
They are seeking sectarian triumphalism.
I broadly agree with the rest of your post but the Shinners are nothing if not pragmatic. They are, in many ways, like FF used to be; populist first and Nationalist second. They realised that they had to be in power, that they actually wanted to be in power, and so latched onto the most populist issues they could find.Incidentially pre-2016, it was noticeable at SF Ard Fheiseanna, to me anyway, that while a UI is raison d'etre of SFs existence, the subject matter had fallen down the charts a bit in topic discussion. Instead, focus was shifting more to ordinary social and economic issues of housing, welfare, employment etc.
Ok Wolfie but drop the rights bit.
It's worth remembering that until the Good Friday Agreement Sinn Fein didn't think it was the right time to pursue their aim of a united Ireland through exclusively peaceful democratic means. They were happy enough to blow up children when it suited them and they still see nothing wrong with those actions or else they wouldn't behave like craven lickspittles at the funeral of child killers, sorry, good republicans.It is the right to pursue legitimate political aims through exclusively peaceful democratic means is what the "now is not the right time" brigade are trying to temper, warning of loyalist violence and 'sensitivities'.
No one is denying anybody any rights. Typical republican reaction, argue that they are "wrong" and they bleat about denial of rights.It is the right to pursue legitimate political aims through exclusively peaceful democratic means is what the "now is not the right time" brigade are trying to temper, warning of loyalist violence and 'sensitivities'.
Ireland, and Britain, has had enough of this for a century or more.
Sinn Fein didn't think it was the right time to pursue their aim of a united Ireland through exclusively peaceful democratic means.
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