Bank Security outstanding after 10yrs

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Luternau

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I have been contacted out of the blue by a Solicitor acting for a bank. They advise me the banks security is not registered on deeds and title deeds are not registered with PRA.

This is legacy stuff as it relates to a conveyance from over 10yrs. Everything is up to date on the mortgage payment wise. I am quite stunned about this. I think this only came to note when the solicitors practice closed and files taken over by law society. How does it take so long for them to notice this? I signed all the paperwork required at drawdown and paid the solicitor.

I would be concerned about the title, but do I have to sign the missing bank securitisation forms? The property is now let out.
 
Hello,

Much of the legal profession relied on undertakings to complete legal work, register mortgages etc. in times past. The Banks were more than happy to trust the legal profession to honour their commitments on foot of their undertakings and permitted loans to drawdown, without later checking that the solicitors had completed their work. It's since turned out that many an undertaking was given, but never honoured.
 
@Mr Earl
Correct. It must have created a lot of work for the banks in trawling through files. It says a lot about the checks and compliance processes undertaken by them in the boom.

Just wondering where I stand in this. There is massive negligence on their behalf. Do I have to assist? What can they do if I don't? For example, couid they seek court order to get me to assist their commercial interests? Its possible this loan would have been sold to a 3rd party if the file was in order. Such a sale would be in their interests, not mine. I am not in arrears but it is a loan the bank may wish to offload due to it being low profit for them. I would not wish to make it easy for them to off load and then be impacted by the offload.
In short, I dont trust them to have my best interest to heart.
 
Hello,

If you obtained a loan on the basis that you were providing the property as security for that loan, then that security needs to be provided - otherwise, your in breach of the loan agreement and the Bank could demand full repayment of the debt.

The fact that solicitors didn't do their job correctly is a seperate issue and while it's wrong and should be addressed, its a seperate issue.

If there are costs to be incurred in now perfecting the Bank's security, I don't think it would be right for you to have to pay those costs (assuming it's repetition of the work previously done). If you are to incur personal costs as part of the process, then you should also ask for these to be paid by the Bank.

However, I do think that you need to cooperate and to refuse to do so, would be the wrong move IMHO, given it'll most likely put you in a situation where your loan is put into default, full repayment is immediately demanded and failure to repay will see you in a courtroom.
 
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+1 to MrEarl's advice.

Plus- this is an issue in your life and needs to be resolved.

Without wishing you any harm, none of us know the day nor hour of our demise, and I think it would be very unhelpful to your loved ones, to add additional concerns.

There's a cheerful thought..........

mf
 
Thanks both for the replies.

@Mr Earl: Good advice in general. This is a performing loan. I don't think it's something they will just call in. What would be the rationale? I complied with the terms of drawdown, of that I am 100% certain. Who is to know, perhaps they got the paperwork over a decade back and lost it? Stranger things happened at these institutions.

@mf1: I am struggling to understand how this is a life issue for me. I am healthy and don't wake up thinking I am going to pass everyday. I signed all the paperwork over a decade ago. It's a cheery thought that my impending doom is a motivating factor. As a rule, healthy people dont go about life thinking that today could be their last day on earth. I would just like to know what the bank may do while I am on this earth.

For info: the bank did nothing but mess me around, including threatening phone calls and letters over missed payments that were their own errors. It was annoying and frustrating at the time — my account was overdrawn by them, my bank card would not work in a supermarket and I had to borrow money to pay for food, yet my account should have had over 3k in it.

That may be an irrelevant factor here, but it was a real life issue for me then, yet I got no apology from them for their error. It's annoying to think they were doing this while having no security or title to the property. They treated me badly (all be it by flawed automated process rather than deliberately).

While that was ongoing, I doubt they cared about my health, or mortality.
 
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Luternau said:
I am struggling to understand how this is a life issue for me.
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Mf isn't talking about the bank necessarily.

As things stand, the title to your house is not registered in your name. This will need to be sorted out before you can ever sell the house, or ultimately for anyone to inherit the house. It's in your interest to get that sorted out.

You have to remember it was your solicitor that messed up here by not completing their job. The bank has nothing to do with registering your title, so your point about banks losing documents is irrelevant here.

The bank might not have proper security, but they've other legal protections. If you were to try get out if this, the ultimate could be that you could have borrowed fraudulently - the banks charge was to be registered, and it wasn't.

They technically could call in the loan (although I've never heard of this happening), as the conditions haven't been met - your solicitor never registered their interest. By the way, there have been others in your situation in the past, including some high profile cases.
 
Iteresting about other cases. Are they linked here or in the media!

Obviously, I would rather not be in this position. I am not happy that my title is not registered. I paid my solicitor for his service and I don't know what he did after drawdown.

Equally, not happy that the banks seemed to have no process of checking solicitors compliance with undertakings in a timely way. It seems in this country that self regulation or checking compliance fall well short and then its the entity that is not the professional in the field that is on the hook. Be it, building regs, planning compliance or conveyance. Something not right about that.

Seeing banks trying to run down the clock on tracker redress and/or then claiming Statute of Limitations has kicked in to avoid being held to account begs the question are they not also subject to the same statutes in terms of what they can do in this instance? It was long outside the 7 yrs when they contacted me. Do they get to have it whatever way they want as long as it benefits them!

Most likely I will comply but only to register good title. I don't care about the bank here. The loan is almost paid off.
 
Firstly, to be clear I understand your perspective,band frustration. My posts aren't intended to argue with you (in case anyone reads them as such), but to give an alternative view.

Luternau said:
Iteresting about other cases. Are they linked here or in the media
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Do the names Michael Lynn or Thomas Byrne ring a bell? They're highest profile ones.

I'm aware of other cases, but not at liberty to discuss. The fact your solicitors files were taken over by the law society might suggest not everything was above board with your solicitor. There are other reasons of course, but yours might not be the only case with your solicitor.

I don't know how these things work, but I'm surprised that the law society didn't contact you when they found the issue, as you're also a 'victim' of the solicitor not completing the job. It might be worth contacting them. As a minimum, they have a compensation fund and might cover any legal costs you incur as a result of this.

The mortgage market depends on solicitor undertakings. If a bank double checked everything before issuing funds, the whole property market would grind to a halt except for cash buyers. The reality is that banks don't (or at least didn't always) double check that they had everything. Your mortgage has a file, they issued the mortgage on a solicitor's undertaking, and that was good enough. If they got further information in future, they added it to your file, but generally they'd have had no reason to ever open your file again unless you got into serious arrears, or they wanted to sell your loan.

In terms of statute of limitations, that's where the fraud angle works really well for banks. There is no real statute of limitations where fraud is concerned.
 
This happened to me! It’s all the solicitors fault - the bank cannot be held responsible.

As it transpired neither my purchase was done correctly nor the previous sale/purchase (you nearly couldn’t make it up) so started many years of sorting it out. Made no difference really and all costs were covered by law society. Only came to light when I’d applied for a top up on the mortgage. Bank came back to me ‘no problem with the top up application but it would appear we’re not in possession of your deeds’
Transpires law society didn’t have them (did have other paperwork) but they were resting with a 3rd party solicitor. Anyway a lot of rigmarole ensued, won’t bore you with the details and all sorted now.
seemingly it happened a lot during the boom.
 
The Banks accepted solicitors undertakings to deliver good title, as another poster said the system would grind to a halt if title had to be perfect before you got your loan, not sure how that would work in conveyancing terms with sellers and buyers, that is correct in every respect.

The solicitor did not do their job, unfortunately far from uncommon.

The Banks do have a system to chase long outstanding solicitors undertakings, at least there was one when I worked for a Bank, I cannot see why this would be discontinued, it is reasonable to ask the Bank for evidence of their attempts to get the title perfected.

Regardless you have a problem, best to face into it and get it resolved without annoying yourself unduly, if you are unhappy with your Bank then switch Bank...simples.
 
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