Ban on selling alcohol in shops urged

shnaek said:

Consumption of Alchol in Ireland has dropped for the last four years, even as prices have dropped and availability is better.

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Has it dropped significantly? Perhaps the figures are affected by young Irish and non-Irish nationals leaving.

For sure it's not a cost or availability issue, it's simply a matter of attitude. The State should manage the expectations of Pubs & Off Licences, that if they serve drunken or under age people they will be closed for a period (and if they repeatedly do so the closure periods should lengthen). Also manage the expectation of drinkers that if they are falling about in public, a danger to themselves or others, they'll spend a night in a Drunk Tank and pay a premium for the pleasure. Courts should not view the excuse of drunkenness as a mitigating factor but rather it should militate against lenient sentences.

michaelm said:

Also manage the expectation of drinkers that if they are falling about in public, a danger to themselves or others, they'll spend a night in a Drunk Tank and pay a premium for the pleasure

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All very well, but how do we square this with the heavy cuts in the Garda budget and Garda overtime, with more to come?

michaelm said:

Courts should not view the excuse of drunkenness as a mitigating factor but rather it should militate against lenient sentences.

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I thought they stopped doing this around 1960 but I could be wrong.

T McGibney said:

All very well, but how do we square this with the heavy cuts in the Garda budget and Garda overtime, with more to come?

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I think such policies would pay for themselves by cutting anti-social crime and easing the strain on A&Es. If you charge €250 for a night in the Drunk Tank (stopped out of your welfare/tax credits if you don't pay promptly) it might even turn a profit. Ultimately it could change the tolerance to public drunkenness. Likewise if Pubs and Off Licences had a genuine fear of being forced to close they would be more rigorous.

michaelm said:

I think such policies would pay for themselves by cutting anti-social crime and easing the strain on A&Es. If you charge €250 for a night in the Drunk Tank (stopped out of your welfare/tax credits if you don't pay promptly) it might even turn a profit. Ultimately it could change the tolerance to public drunkenness. Likewise if Pubs and Off Licences had a genuine fear of being forced to close they would be more rigorous.

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Sorry, this frankly smacks of the sort of hardman police state carryon that was fashionable for a while in 1970s South America.

Its hard to believe it would be self-financing. Heavy-handed policing and detention of 'drunks' (define, please??) might equally lead to increased social disorder, (some drunks like to hit back when collared 'unfairly' by police), higher legal costs, ('my client was arrested illegally, M'lud') and waves of costly litigation ('Mlud, my client was injured by another drunk while in detention and now deserves compensation') by real or perceived 'innocent victims'. It might well 'change the tolerance to public drunkenness', but it might also weaken the authority of the police and State. Not too many Gardai are calling for the return of the Heavy Gang.

I'm not that fond either of the notion of families going hungry cos Dad's drunk tank fine got stopped from his wages or dole cheque.

T McGibney said:

Sorry, this frankly smacks of the sort of hardman police state carryon that was fashionable for a while in 1970s South America.

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Meh, I'm not advocating Death Squads . More thinking in general of the broken window theory which worked well in New York. I do think the State should probably double the number of Gardaí.

T McGibney said:

I'm not that fond either of the notion of families going hungry cos Dad's drunk tank fine got stopped from his wages or dole cheque.

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Be careful that some Dad who's just drank his wages/dole doesn't set fire to your straw man as he stumbles home to his battered wife and hungry kids .

michaelm said:

I do think the State should probably double the number of Gardaí.

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In the current budgetary situation? even if we wanted to, the EU/IMF would hardly sanction it.

michaelm said:

Be careful that some Dad who's just drank his wages/dole doesn't set fire to your straw man as he stumbles home to his battered wife and hungry kids .

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Fair enough. But I meant it as a serious point.