Bailed-out AIB to pay top staff €40m bonus

I can't believe it. There is no end to the people who run our country with no moral compass. Who are these people that think it justifiable to mug the taxpayers of their own country. Shame on them. And shame on the politicians who let them. And shame on the police who do not raid them. And shame on the judiciary who only find ways to protect them.

Well done Fintan O' Toole and the Irish Times.
 
Does anyone know on what basis the high court determined that the test case bonus was payable, and subsequently paid .
This sets a legal precedent , I assume that will be the basis of any cases taken by AIB staff .
 
I'm assuming it was a contractual obligation to staff.

I'm assuming the new position has to do with the threat to solvency they payments would represent which the board were unable to act upon until it was made clear the state would not guarantee the solvency of the bank if the bonuses were paid.
 

That's what Minister Lenihan said on the radio this morning.
 
Is there any chance that because of the initial high court case, that AIB could be forced to pay out the bonuses for the remaining staff?
If this case is setting a precedent could it be decided that MOF went against a court ruling and that would be unlawful?
It could possibly take months to sort out by which time it would happen on the next government's watch.
 

What bonus payments are you talking about?
 
I would be surprised if a trader (the test case) didn't have a bonus written into their contract. If FO'T's article is correct and most employees didn't have a bonus written into their contract, then possibly the ruling on a written contract might not be considered a precedent for enforcing a verbal contract.
 

My understanding is that if someone in AIB wants their bonus, they will have to sue for it. For a lot of the staff concerned, given the value of their bonus, they may not want to be so public
 
I am quite surprised at this to be honest. The guy that took the case had a high court judgement passed in his favour that AIB had to pay. As such they will, or may already have paid it.

Surely he cant be the only one is similar circumstances. Wasnt he just the test case. If the court ruled in his favour surely they will rule in the favour of others that have similar cases (not all of them will have but surely a lot will).

Then who will pay for AIB's defence if the rest of them decide to go to court? Guess who....Muggins of course...the Taxpayer.

The delay of these payments is only going to cost us more. Granted the Bank or State cant afford them but I cant see legally how they can get out of paying them, especially now as prescedent has been set with the payment of one of them.
 
I would love to know when the government/MoF knew about these bonus payments and the court case.
I cannot understand the logic if they let AIB not defend the case and are now looking for the payments not to be paid. It would have been better to insist AIB defend the case in court.
 

I'm becoming good at begrudgery Orca.

For example, I don't buy your division of labour argument.

The fact that you say the Capital Acquisitions portfolio hasn't crashed yet means nothing to a layperson, so you might want to beef up your explanation with reference to what Mr, Foy and his fellow travellers actually do to earn their money.

If they're not selling something to earn that commission, it seems they are buying something. Sicne when do buyers get paid on commission? How is the value of what they have done for the company calculated? Comparison costings? I honestly don't know, I'm asking.

The culture in AIB was informed by the history of, and culture in, large Irish companies.
Get big, remove small local competition, engage in cartel like behaviour, create monopoly conditions, smooth the wa.
You name it, the tracks of the perfidy these boys engage in are everywhere, from their their bail outs to their lack of real competition driving down prices.

Let's not pretend that people trading on insider information are in any way astute, or that gambling is something that takes talent.
The former takes contacts, the latter requires the ability to place a bet, preferably using other peoples money - lots of it.
I mean, exactly WHAT brilliant investments were made in 2008 that justified a €160,000 bonus in that year?

Do I begrudge traders the right to gamble away the wealth of a country - yes I do and so should every right thinking person.

ONQ.
 
If you read the Fintan O'Toole article you will see that AIB didn't offer a defence to the action, they deliberately brought forward the issue of the bonuses so that they would be verbally agreed with staff, there's nothing in most of their contracts about bonuses.
Banks mugging us again.
 
Absolutely no tongue-in-cheek. I'm not defending AIB and I'm not supporting the payment on bonuses.

I'm simply pointing out that the underhand sleeven approach of bullying and threatening staff is not going to happen, and should not be considered for a moment.
 

Just because a trader makes a 10m profit doesn't mean he is competent, it could mean he is lucky and the bet he placed (and that's what trading is, betting) came off. After all, the sun shone out of Nick Leasons rear end for many a long day. One of the fundamental reasons the US govt has had to bail out many of it's banks is the failure of their trading divisions to understand prudence and risk management

There is a bigger issue here and that is the fact that banks have become dependent on trading income at the expense of long term investment and a long term relationship with customers. Would it actually be such a bad thing if globally, trading was reigned in and controlled in a better manner?

As for the bonuses, my firm pays bonues, they are based on my performance, my team's performance and the companies performance overall. If the company isn't making the numbers, it doesn't get paid, simple as that
 
Mpsox said:
If the company isn't making the numbers, it doesn't get paid, simple as that
Click to expand...

Trouble is how they make the numbers!

If you fool people into believing you can expand credit at a rate of 20% p.a. for a period of 10 years and enjoy bad debt provisions of close to 0% in conjunction with this policy, then you can command fairly undeserved bonuses.

I'd propose all bonuses to be paid in shares that can only be cashed in 5-10 years after you leave the company as a way of solving this.

Give the AIB guys their 2008 bonus in shares based on the number of shares their bonus would have bought at the average 2008 share price
 
I'm just wondering if Ajai sent a little reminder note to Brian stating the money isn't available just yet. There is no mention of such an event anywhere.

But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Hmmm ...

Marion
 
Make no mistake, these people will be paid. That is the law of the land. Lenny has played a fast one by pretending that the payments can be stopped, knowing that when they get paid it will be under a new government. Gilmore spotted the trap when he stated in the Dail today that these bonuses will be paid and that Lenny was only bluffing.
 
The idea that the letter from Lenihan (pretending that he'll let the bank go bust if they pay these bonuses) should stand up in court is laughable.


You don't seem to have a grasp on what the Capital Markets Group does.
 
The first report i heard of the case was that the initial test case taken by John Foy was in a UK court. Is that correct ?
If so, why was it not in an Irish Court ? Would an Irish judge have dealt with it differently ?




Secman
 
dereko1969 said:
What bonus payments are you talking about?
Click to expand...

The largest bonus was paid to former National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) chief executive Dr Michael Somers.
He was paid €200,000 earlier this year as a performance-related bonus for 2009

Other bonuses paid in the past 12 months included:
  • €31,395 paid to Patricia Byron, chief executive of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board (PIAB) as a reward for performance in 2009;
  • €40,539 paid to the chief executive of Horse Racing [broken link removed], Brian Kavanagh, in respect of 2009;
  • €9,628 paid to [broken link removed], chief executive of Waterways Ireland, for performance in 2007

http://www.independent.ie/national-...ervice-officials-get-big-bonuses-2461174.html
 
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